death sentence in the uk?

For the sake of argument UK citizens carry out these bomb attacks out of sympathy for groups such as AQ. or just because they disagree with the war.


Should this be classed as treason and should the death penalty be returned for such crimes or should a more inventive punishment be applied (please supply).


I believe assuming they survive they should be executed. The downside is that this does of course make them martyrs :angry: .

I don't see it as a deterrent but purely punishment.

I realise that there are circumstances that would prevent it in reality but for the sake of the thread those can be overcome

i agree with deportation, not execution.


maybe make them sit and listen to what all the other muslims say about them first. i'd feel pretty disgusted at myself if i'd tried this in the name of islam and every muslim i saw called me a n00b and told me i suck at being a muslim. like what they're doing now.


also simply deporting them takes away they're martyrdom and leaves them free to be spat on for the rest of their lives

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Originally Posted by GepperRankins

i agree with deportation, not execution.


maybe make them sit and listen to what all the other muslims say about them first. i'd feel pretty disgusted at myself if i'd tried this in the name of islam and every muslim i saw called me a n00b and told me i suck at being a muslim. like what they're doing now.


also simply deporting them takes away they're martyrdom and leaves them free to be spat on for the rest of their lives

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That is fine for citizens that are immigrants but how and where to do you deport someone born in the country?

the sea :01:

if we were to introduce the death sentence to kill these guys we'd just piss more people off and aggrivate the problem

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Find an uninhabited (and uninhabitable) island and air-drop them in.

If all's right between them and Allah, he can do what he will for/to them, and they'll be glad for it.

Right? ;)

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i hope you're not suggesting allah is on your side :smilie4:

I doubt if the death penalty would have any relevance. As I recall, one of the captured bombers in Indonesia demanded the death penalty so he could have his martyrdom.

The difficulty is these people really believe this mad stuff.

We want the backing of every pro-British Muslim in the land. A calm and balanced approach is what we need. If we catch them, convict them and jail them and forget about them.

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Originally Posted by GepperRankins

if we were to introduce the death sentence to kill these guys we'd just piss more people off and aggrivate the problem

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I think just the capture and jailing would achieve this. There have been many "terror attacks" done in conjunction with demanding the release of prisoners.
Would prison not have the same thing as was seen with the IRA where they wanted "political prisoner" status ?

@ biggles

The relevance to me is punishment and revenge pure and simple to make us feel better.

punishment and revenge?

for a start i don't believe revenge can possibly do anything but make the situation worse.

i believe there'll be enough punishment in prison for them too. the main thing is that they can't co-ordinate any terrorism from in their cell.


what's political prisoner status?

and again, i believe execution would increase the risk and gain sympathy for terrorists

@ gepper

I do understand your reasoning and it is valid.


Punishment is revenge in itself but I was using it in a broader sense of "you try to kill us we will kill you"

History has shown that imprisonment alone is used as a reason to attack so I say what the hell lets execute them.


This may give you some idea about "political prisoner"

Deterence won't work, clearly, with suicide bombers. The punitive measure should, presumably, be unpalatable to them. Execution isn't, therefore keeping them incarcerated - forcing them to benefit our society by doing menial tasks - is a better option. I don't care if it costs the state more.

Denying them rudimentary means with which to worship and not bowing to their specific dietry needs for the remainder of their lives would be a far greater punishment.

I fail to see how I'd feel better if a failed suicide bomber was executed.

One of the many things I cant comprehend is why is it if you take a piece of land of another country thousands will be killed because of your action. But if you assassinate a the leader of a country, in most cases you will be fed and watered by that country for the rest of your life.

Is a piece of land worth more than a persons life?

Life in prison, with no prospect of parole. Given nothing but the necessities of life. No entertainment, no cigarettes, nothing but food and water.

Made to work to help pay for their keep.

Keep them alive as long as possible and let others see what they would be in for. Don't make martyrs of them, that just encourages other mentalists to do the same.

The death penalty is wrong. It is barbaric and speaks badly of societies which have it.

I think I would change my opinion on the death penalty pretty quick if one of my kids was murdered by a paedophile. Albeit I would probably like it to be summarily.

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Originally Posted by bigboab

I think I would change my opinion on the death penalty pretty quick if one of my kids was murdered by a paedophile. Albeit I would probably like it to be summarily.

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Is empathy not a strong point, Boab :D

I wouldn't change my mind simply because the issue is directly affecting me all of a sudden. I think your statement is a bit nimbyish.

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Originally Posted by manker

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Originally Posted by bigboab

I think I would change my opinion on the death penalty pretty quick if one of my kids was murdered by a paedophile. Albeit I would probably like it to be summarily.

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Is empathy not a strong point, Boab :D

I wouldn't change my mind simply because the issue is directly affecting me all of a sudden. I think your statement is a bit nimbyish.

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Is this another new word of yours?:lol:

I assume and hope that it has not affected you. You do not know how you would react if it did. If you ever get the chance try and visit a Criminal Mental Institution. Some 'things' in these establishments make Hannibal Lecter look like Mother Teresa. Hope I got that the right way round.:)

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Originally Posted by manker

Deterence won't work, clearly, with suicide bombers. The punitive measure should, presumably, be unpalatable to them. Execution isn't,

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How about burying them against their religious beliefs after execution in the case of religious fanatics?

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Originally Posted by vidcc

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Originally Posted by manker

Deterence won't work, clearly, with suicide bombers. The punitive measure should, presumably, be unpalatable to them. Execution isn't,

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How about burying them against their religious beliefs after execution in the case of religious fanatics?

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Wouldn't that negate your point about executing them being less problematic than incarceration wrt future attacks.

If we start burying them wrapped in pigskin, or whatever, it will raise the ire of fanatics worldwide far more than simply locking them up sans privileges.

What about not naming them. There cant be anything worse than saying Saint Whatshisname? You know the one that bombed such and such.

Make it against the law for the papers to publish the names of bombers, suicidal or otherwise. Take away their notoriety.

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Originally Posted by bigboab

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Originally Posted by manker

Is empathy not a strong point, Boab :D

I wouldn't change my mind simply because the issue is directly affecting me all of a sudden. I think your statement is a bit nimbyish.

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Is this another new word of yours?:lol:

I assume and hope that it has not affected you. You do not know how you would react if it did. If you ever get the chance try and visit a Criminal Mental Institution. Some 'things' in these establishments make Hannibal Lecter look like Mother Teresa. Hope I got that the right way round.:)

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It's not a new word. It's an acronym that's fairly widespread, I thought.

If a situation like that affected me then I'd obviously feel rage and want to kill the guy with my bare hands. Assuming I don't get the opportunity, I believe I'd reflect on the matter and defer to my original mindset that killing people for retribution simply isn't on and that life incarceration is a much more fitting punishment.

However, as you correctly say, it is impossible for me to know this 100% percent.

It's not a new word. It's an acronym that's fairly widespread, I thought.[/QUOTE]
It is not spread in my back yard though.:lol: I thought a man of your standing would have said nimbyistic. Far be it for me to correct you.:ph34r:

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Originally Posted by bigboab

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Originally Posted by manker

It's not a new word. It's an acronym that's fairly widespread, I thought.

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It is not spread in my back yard though.:lol: I thought a man of your standing would have said nimbyistic. Far be it from me to correct you.:ph34r:

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:dry:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Find an uninhabited (and uninhabitable) island and air-drop them in.

If all's right between them and Allah, he can do what he will for/to them, and they'll be glad for it.

Right? ;)

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;)

Prison island.

"No Escape" style.

That way there is no killing by the state.

It amounts to exile.

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Originally Posted by manker

Wouldn't that negate your point about executing them being less problematic than incarceration wrt future attacks.

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I didn't say it would be less problematic, I just don't think it would cause any more or less attacks either way

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Originally Posted by manker

If we start burying them wrapped in pigskin, or whatever, it will raise the ire of fanatics worldwide far more than simply locking them up sans privileges.

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The fanatics ire is raised whatever.

It has been suggested that these particular suicide bombers believe they will be rewarded in the afterlife. It is this view that makes recruitment of volunteers easier for the fanatics. If it were made known that they would be buried wrong and thus denied the afterlife (I think that's what happens if buried in pigskin but I am open to correction) perhaps recruitment will be harder.


I am for addressing the root causes of terrorism but I believe those that carry it out must be punished. As was said in another thread, it is possible to see the reason without saying it's justification.

i'm thinking life in prison is hell of a lot more scary than execution for someone who considers themselves dead and were willing to kill themselves. more reason not to try it without the death sentance

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Originally Posted by GepperRankins

i'm thinking life in prison is hell of a lot more scary than execution for someone who considers themselves dead and were willing to kill themselves. more reason not to try it without the death sentance

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Pretty much what I think. However no niceties, food and water and no recreation type thing.

That's more of a problem for a suicide bomber, one would have thought.

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Originally Posted by vidcc

I didn't say it would be less problematic, I just don't think it would cause any more or less attacks either way

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Originally Posted by manker

If we start burying them wrapped in pigskin, or whatever, it will raise the ire of fanatics worldwide far more than simply locking them up sans privileges.

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The fanatics ire is raised whatever.

It has been suggested that these particular suicide bombers believe they will be rewarded in the afterlife. It is this view that makes recruitment of volunteers easier for the fanatics. If it were made known that they would be buried wrong and thus denied the afterlife (I think that's what happens if buried in pigskin but I am open to correction) perhaps recruitment will be harder.


I am for addressing the root causes of terrorism but I believe those that carry it out must be punished. As was said in another thread, it is possible to see the reason without saying it's justification.

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I see, I thought you were saying it would cause less problems just to execute them. I misunderstood.

I actually think it would cause more problems. Especially the wrapping of corpses in pig skin.

Also, it would kinda validate their claims that the bombers will be rewarded in the afterlife because the leaders would twist it and preach to their followers that even the infidels believe that you'll be rewarded because they're trying to prevent it from happening.

If it's possible, they'd be even more determined to succeed in blowing themselves up :pinch:

Of course, they have to be punished. As I said, locking them away until they die of natural causes with no privileges would be a fitting punsihment. Much more so than giving them what they want - which is death.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by Busyman

;)

Prison island.

"No Escape" style.

That way there is no killing by the state.

It amounts to exile.

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I guess we Americans aren't qualified to comment on the British question, B.

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Sure you are, I didn't think you were serious tho'.

Dropping them off in a place where they can commit ritual suicide with relative ease and among their kith seems a rather benevolent method with which to deal with these folk.

Kinda like saying "Ah well, you fecked up your suicide last time - we'll take you to a place where even the stupidest amongst you simply cannot fail' :huh:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

I guess we Americans aren't qualified to comment on the British question, B.

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Why not? It's not like only Americans reply to threads with American issues. We have the death penalty but not in every state and not everyone in the states that have it agree with it. I guarantee that there are many in the UK that would like to see its return.


The reason I specified British is because they abolished the death sentence but held it for treason for a while before abolishing it completely.

It strikes me that if the bombers were born in the UK or naturalised citizens then such acts are at least tantamount to treason if not actually treason.

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Originally Posted by vidcc

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Originally Posted by j2k4

I guess we Americans aren't qualified to comment on the British question, B.

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I guarantee that there are many in the UK that would like to see its return.

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How do you "guarantee" this, pray tell.

Can you back up this assertion, or is it just a meaningless figure of speech.

I say treason and kill them, but, five bullets to the head of a suspet sits just as well with me.

As far as I am concerned the safety of the majority outweighs the human rights of the minority

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Originally Posted by JPaul

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Originally Posted by vidcc

I guarantee that there are many in the UK that would like to see its return.

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Originally Posted by JPaul

How do you "guarantee" this, pray tell.

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I will refund any monies payed to me if found to be false

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Originally Posted by JPaul

Can you back up this assertion, or is it just a meaningless figure of speech.

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I have many friends and relatives in the UK...... I didn't say how many people is "many" and if there were a referendum I suspect the current situation would remain.

Many does not mean most.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by GepperRankins

i hope you're not suggesting allah is on your side :smilie4:

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Well, since you've asked, I think he actually must be, if what mainstream Muslims have been said to believe about their religion is true... :huh:

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sorry. i thought you'd gone all neo-con on us.



i'm athiest so i don't believe god is on anyones side. if he was real i reckon it'd be difficult for him to work out whos side he's on too :ermm:

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Originally Posted by vidcc

Many does not mean most.

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Who said it did.

Unless you can quantify the number you cannot reasonably make comment on it. Therefore I assume you can, what constitutes "many", in this context.

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Originally Posted by GepperRankins

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Well, since you've asked, I think he actually must be, if what mainstream Muslims have been said to believe about their religion is true... :huh:

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if he was real i reckon it'd be difficult for him to work out whos side he's on too :ermm:

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Which actually sounds more agnostic than atheist.

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Originally Posted by JPaul

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Originally Posted by vidcc

Many does not mean most.

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Who said it did.

Unless you can quantify the number you cannot reasonably make comment on it. Therefore I assume you can, what constitutes "many", in this context.

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There is a product on the market that can cure you.

http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/961/dulcr6tb.jpg

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Originally Posted by vidcc

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Originally Posted by JPaul

Who said it did.

Unless you can quantify the number you cannot reasonably make comment on it. Therefore I assume you can, what constitutes "many", in this context.

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There is a product on the market that can cure you.

http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/961/dulcr6tb.jpg

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So, here's the deal.

You made a comment about "most" people in the UK which you can't actually substantiate. When asked to do so you post a cliche, in the form of a picture.

Is there any prospect of you actually answering the question, or is that as good as you are likely to get.

Treason is still a capital offense in the UK, as is Piracy and Mutiny.

It will never be enacted however, as it is also against the 6th protocol of the European Convention of Human Rights, which Jack Straw ratified in 1999.

ie: We'd have to withdraw from a EU treaty, in order to re-introduce the Death Penalty.

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Originally Posted by manker

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Originally Posted by j2k4

I guess we Americans aren't qualified to comment on the British question, B.

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Sure you are, I didn't think you were serious tho'.

Dropping them off in a place where they can commit ritual suicide with relative ease and among their kith seems a rather benevolent method with which to deal with these folk.

Kinda like saying "Ah well, you fecked up your suicide last time - we'll take you to a place where even the stupidest amongst you simply cannot fail' :huh:

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If they commit suicide, it's out of the state's hands of committing murder.

The state should not play babysitter to keep someone alive.

@j2 - It is interesting that since guns have been banned in the UK, there has been a rise in home invasions. Who'd have thunk it? :huh:

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Originally Posted by Busyman

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Originally Posted by manker

Sure you are, I didn't think you were serious tho'.

Dropping them off in a place where they can commit ritual suicide with relative ease and among their kith seems a rather benevolent method with which to deal with these folk.

Kinda like saying "Ah well, you fecked up your suicide last time - we'll take you to a place where even the stupidest amongst you simply cannot fail' :huh:

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If they commit suicide, it's out of the state's hands of committing murder.

The state should not play babysitter to keep someone alive.

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That's where we disagree. I think the state should babysit criminals til they die.

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Originally Posted by Busyman

@j2 - It is interesting that since guns have been banned in the UK, there has been a rise in home invasions. Who'd have thunk it? :huh:

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Guns haven't been banned in the UK :blink: