This is a surprising story...

**j2k4** · 10-08-2008, 10:13 PM

...considering the dems foreswear cheating.

At least they do until they are caught red-handed.

Imagine...a government-funded voter-registration organization, run exclusively by democrats, for democrats.

Since Obama and ACORN go way, way, back, I wonder how this fits into his "change and hope" spiel.

BTW-

This story only recounts events in Nevada; there are similar investigations taking place in (I think) twelve other "battleground" states.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the...es_raided.html

**clocker** · 10-08-2008, 11:08 PM

Good.
I wonder if the Dems can illegally register voters faster than the Repubs can illegally disenfranchise em?

**devilsadvocate** · 10-08-2008, 11:10 PM

As noted in the report you linked to Acorn had been proactive in trying to prevent fraudulent registration. Obviously they needed to try harder and perhaps take potential employee vetting a little more seriously.

For Immediate Release: October 7, 2008 ACORN Statement from Bertha Lewis, Interim Chief Organizer, on Incident in Las Vegas:
"Over the past year, ACORN has worked hard to help over 80,000 people in Clark County register to vote. As part of our nonpartisan voter registration program, we have review all the applications submitted by our canvassers. When we have identified suspicious applications, we have separated them out and flagged them for election officials. We have zero tolerance for fraudulent registrations. We immediately dismiss employees we suspect of submitting fraudulent registrations.
For the past 10 months, any time ACORN has identified a potentially fraudulent application, we turn that application into election officials separately and offer to provide election officials with the information they would need to pursue an investigation or prosecution of the individual.
Election officials routinely ignored this information and failed to act. In early July, ACORN asked to meet with election officials to express our concerns that they were not acting on information ACORN had presented to them. ACORN met with Clark County elections officials and a representative of the Secretary of State on July 17th. ACORN pleaded with them to take our concerns about fraudulent applications seriously. One week later, elections officials asked us to provide them with a second copy of what we had previously provided to them. ACORN responded by giving election officials copies of 46 "problem application packages," which involved 33 former canvassers.
On September 23, ACORN had received a subpoena dated September 19th requesting information on 15 employees, all of whom had been included in the packages we had previously submitted to election officials. ACORN provided our personnel records on these 15 employees on September 29.
Today's raid by the Secretary of State's Office is a stunt that serves no useful purpose other than discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible voter to the polls."

**j2k4** · 10-09-2008, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

As noted in the report you linked to Acorn had been proactive in trying to prevent fraudulent registration. Obviously they needed to try harder and perhaps take potential employee vetting a little more seriously.

For Immediate Release: October 7, 2008 ACORN Statement from Bertha Lewis, Interim Chief Organizer, on Incident in Las Vegas:
"Over the past year, ACORN has worked hard to help over 80,000 people in Clark County register to vote. As part of our nonpartisan voter registration program, we have review all the applications submitted by our canvassers. When we have identified suspicious applications, we have separated them out and flagged them for election officials. We have zero tolerance for fraudulent registrations. We immediately dismiss employees we suspect of submitting fraudulent registrations.
For the past 10 months, any time ACORN has identified a potentially fraudulent application, we turn that application into election officials separately and offer to provide election officials with the information they would need to pursue an investigation or prosecution of the individual.
Election officials routinely ignored this information and failed to act. In early July, ACORN asked to meet with election officials to express our concerns that they were not acting on information ACORN had presented to them. ACORN met with Clark County elections officials and a representative of the Secretary of State on July 17th. ACORN pleaded with them to take our concerns about fraudulent applications seriously. One week later, elections officials asked us to provide them with a second copy of what we had previously provided to them. ACORN responded by giving election officials copies of 46 "problem application packages," which involved 33 former canvassers.
On September 23, ACORN had received a subpoena dated September 19th requesting information on 15 employees, all of whom had been included in the packages we had previously submitted to election officials. ACORN provided our personnel records on these 15 employees on September 29.
Today's raid by the Secretary of State's Office is a stunt that serves no useful purpose other than discredit our work registering Nevadans and distracting us from the important work ahead of getting every eligible voter to the polls."

So, then.

Saying you are serious about fraudulent registration is sufficient to avoid blame, even while fraud is rampant.

Reminds me of our current situation with the banks, et al, and Wall Street.

Clocker-

Republican "efforts" to disenfranchise dem voters are, by and large, anecdotal liberal lore, nothing more.

Bush won Florida; even the dems who continued to count the votes after the court refused to sanction them admitted it about eight months later.

If disenfranchisement had been an issue of any substance whatsoever it is safe to assume the dems would have several republican scalps on permanent display.

Fact.

**clocker** · 10-09-2008, 12:40 AM

Why do you assume I'm referring to the 2000 election?
Nothing anecdotal about Repub efforts in Michigan- LAST MONTH!- to disqualify voters based on foreclosure lists.
Nothing anecdotal about Virginia Repubs sending flyers to Virginia Tech students telling them if they vote they may lose their scholarships, dependent status or insurance coverage.
Oh, that was last month also.

Nothing anecdotal or "lorish" about either example.

**devilsadvocate** · 10-09-2008, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by j2k4

So, then.

Saying you are serious about fraudulent registration is sufficient to avoid blame, even while fraud is rampant.

While disturbing hardly rampant. The Nevada office had something like 7-800 canvassers and reported 33 themselves. Of the 33 they reported information for only 15 was subpoenaed and if you dig into the story it seems the problem was employment fraud, along the lines of being paid to deliver leaflets and instead dumping them in a ditch, except these people were making up names and addresses which is a tad more serious.

Hopefully the investigation will be swift and any guilty people punished.

I know you want to make political mischief with this and suggest that ACORN officials were complicit in the fraudulent canvasser's actions and by default the democratic party because they do only register democrats after all

, but much like Palin's troopergate investigation, the pointing finger doesn't equal guilt.

Had they not reported the issues to the relevant authority and fired the offenders then perhaps your case would be stronger. If however the investigation uncovers wrongdoing on their part then screw them.

I've already laid blame with their applicant processing. Other than that they appear to be at the same mercy from the behavior of employees as any other employer.

**j2k4** · 10-09-2008, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

Originally Posted by j2k4

So, then.

Saying you are serious about fraudulent registration is sufficient to avoid blame, even while fraud is rampant.

While disturbing hardly rampant. The Nevada office had something like 7-800 canvassers and reported 33 themselves. Of the 33 they reported information for only 15 was subpoenaed and if you dig into the story it seems the problem was employment fraud, along the lines of being paid to deliver leaflets and instead dumping them in a ditch, except these people were making up names and addresses which is a tad more serious.

Hopefully the investigation will be swift and any guilty people punished.

I know you want to make political mischief with this and suggest that ACORN officials were complicit in the fraudulent canvasser's actions and by default the democratic party because they do only register democrats after all

, but much like Palin's troopergate investigation, the pointing finger doesn't equal guilt.

Had they not reported the issues to the relevant authority and fired the offenders then perhaps your case would be stronger. If however the investigation uncovers wrongdoing on their part then screw them.

I've already laid blame with their applicant processing. Other than that they appear to be at the same mercy from the behavior of employees as any other employer.

That's rich.

I take note of political mischief, and you accuse me of political mischief for doing so.

An old and revered liberal tactic.

**j2k4** · 10-09-2008, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by clocker

Why do you assume I'm referring to the 2000 election?
Nothing anecdotal about Repub efforts in Michigan- LAST MONTH!- to disqualify voters based on foreclosure lists.
Nothing anecdotal about Virginia Repubs sending flyers to Virginia Tech students telling them if they vote they may lose their scholarships, dependent status or insurance coverage.
Oh, that was last month also.

Nothing anecdotal or "lorish" about either example.

Links, please.