Extending the Bush Tax Cuts

**999969999** · 12-06-2010, 05:37 PM

I cannot believe there is so much outcry from Democrats about extending the Bust Tax Cuts for everyone. From my perspective, a small business which makes less than $250,000 per year is not doing very well, and is probably headed for bankruptcy. Or it is just a one-man operation like a plumber or electrician, etc. I would dare say that the majority of small businesses make more than $250,000 per year, so a tax hike on them will cause them to pull back on their spending and job creation. I know if our taxes went up, we would have to put off some major purchases until later. And I've had some conversations with some of our customers who said they are delaying major acquisitions and trying to just sit back and wait out this presidency--hopefully just two more years of this nonsense and it will all be over.

What I would like to see is a flat tax. And make everyone pay, no exceptions and no deductions of any kind. Even if a person made just one dollar per year, they should have to pay a percentage of that dollar back in taxes. Maybe then, when the people getting all the government handouts have to pay taxes, they will be a little bit more concerned about reducing government waste, and perhaps they would feel some of the bite from taxes and want to lower them. Right now, many of the people who get government entitlements pay no federal taxes at all, so what do they care if the government raises taxes on everyone else? Make them pay their fair share, too.

**clocker** · 12-07-2010, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by 999969999

I would dare say that the majority of small businesses make more than $250,000 per year, so a tax hike on them will cause them to pull back on their spending and job creation.

I would like to point out that this is total horseshit.
Businesses will spend what they must to expand their business, costs are passed on to the consumer as usual.
There were far more jobs created during the Clinton admin than the Bush era, even with Bush's tax cuts.

**devilsadvocate** · 12-07-2010, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by 999969999

What I would like to see is a flat tax. And make everyone pay, no exceptions and no deductions of any kind. Even if a person made just one dollar per year, they should have to pay a percentage of that dollar back in taxes. Maybe then, when the people getting all the government handouts have to pay taxes, they will be a little bit more concerned about reducing government waste, and perhaps they would feel some of the bite from taxes and want to lower them. Right now, many of the people who get government entitlements pay no federal taxes at all, so what do they care if the government raises taxes on everyone else? Make them pay their fair share, too.

Everyone pays the same tax already. Someone making a million a year pays the same tax I do on the money I make.

As for "small businesses" there was a deduction in the plan that was filibustered. "Small businesses" is defined in a peculiar way as well.
After deductions, loopholes and other various accounting methods most companies pay very little tax.
Funneling money abroad or just moving their "headquarters" abroad means American companies making billions can pay zero tax.
In 2009 Exxon made a profit of $35 billion, they paid zero federal tax.

**sandman_1** · 12-07-2010, 03:59 PM

The problem nowadays is that small and large businesses aren't hiring to begin with. Yes there are some exceptions but for the most part businesses are holding on to the extra money they are making and making their workers work more. Today workers are working 2 and half times more than they did 20 years ago and getting paid far less. I say tax the well to do $250,000+ and tax even more the wealthy. How much does someone need to live comfortably: 30mill, 60mill, a billion? How much money is enough? When we have CEO's and other officers of the company making several hundred times more than the average worker, I say tax the sons of bitches. If they don't want to pay their people other than table scrapings, the people that make them the money, then the hell with them. Tax the shit out of them. The middle-class is already eroding away because of this huge disparity. The rich are getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

• 66 percent of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans.

• 83 percent of all U.S. stocks are in the hands of 1 percent of the people.

• For the first time in U.S. history, banks own a greater share of residential housing net worth in the United States than all individual Americans put together.

• In 1950, the ratio of the average executive's paycheck to the average worker's paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one.

• The bottom 50 percent of income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth.

• Average Wall Street bonuses for 2009 were up 17 percent when compared with 2008.

• Despite the financial crisis, the number of millionaires in the United States rose a whopping 16 percent to 7.8 million in 2009.

• The top 10 percent of Americans now earn around 50 percent of our national income.

Source: http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker...CD,WMT,XRT,DIA

If they want to keep getting wealthy, the rich, tax the shit out them. Who cares if it pisses them off. At this point I could care less.

**999969999** · 12-07-2010, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

Originally Posted by 999969999

What I would like to see is a flat tax. And make everyone pay, no exceptions and no deductions of any kind. Even if a person made just one dollar per year, they should have to pay a percentage of that dollar back in taxes. Maybe then, when the people getting all the government handouts have to pay taxes, they will be a little bit more concerned about reducing government waste, and perhaps they would feel some of the bite from taxes and want to lower them. Right now, many of the people who get government entitlements pay no federal taxes at all, so what do they care if the government raises taxes on everyone else? Make them pay their fair share, too.

Everyone pays the same tax already. Someone making a million a year pays the same tax I do on the money I make.

As for "small businesses" there was a deduction in the plan that was filibustered. "Small businesses" is defined in a peculiar way as well.
After deductions, loopholes and other various accounting methods most companies pay very little tax.
Funneling money abroad or just moving their "headquarters" abroad means American companies making billions can pay zero tax.
In 2009 Exxon made a profit of $35 billion, they paid zero federal tax.

First, let me point out that Exxon is not a small business. My family's business is a small business and yes, we do pay taxes-- far more than we would like to pay, and I imagine far more than you pay in taxes. And there is no way for us to outsource any part of our business overseas. We're stuck with the tax bill and all the federal regulations which run up costs, as well.

And no, not everyone pays the same amount of taxes like you stated. The vast majority of the people getting government "entitlements" like welfare, medicaid, social security, etc., pay little or no federal taxes at all. Some of them even get "Earned Income Tax Credits" where they actually get money back from the government after having paid no taxes whatsoever. It is redistribution of wealth.

A flat tax would take care of that. They would have to pay a percentage of their income, no matter what the source, nor how much they make, back to the feds in taxes. Then they would feel the bite from taxes and maybe they would not feel so giddy about raising taxes. Right now they vote for people who promise to give them aid and government services, and they don't care how much it costs the government because they don't pay any taxes at all. They are essentially voting themselves raises by voting for Democrats.

**999969999** · 12-07-2010, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by clocker

Originally Posted by 999969999

I would dare say that the majority of small businesses make more than $250,000 per year, so a tax hike on them will cause them to pull back on their spending and job creation.

I would like to point out that this is total horseshit.
Businesses will spend what they must to expand their business, costs are passed on to the consumer as usual.
There were far more jobs created during the Clinton admin than the Bush era, even with Bush's tax cuts.

So, if a small business has to pay more money in taxes, they then don't have that money to expand their business and hire more people. And if they pass the cost on to consumers, consumers will buy less of their product or service, which in turn, hurts the business.

**clocker** · 12-07-2010, 04:18 PM

Explain why job creation went down during the Bush administration, please.

**999969999** · 12-07-2010, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by clocker

Explain why job creation went down during the Bush administration, please.

Can you actually deny this:

"So, if a small business has to pay more money in taxes, they then don't have that money to expand their business and hire more people. And if they pass the cost on to consumers, consumers will buy less of their product or service, which in turn, hurts the business."

**clocker** · 12-07-2010, 04:34 PM

Can you actually deny that job growth dipped severely during the "low tax" Bush years?

**999969999** · 12-07-2010, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by sandman_1

The problem nowadays is that small and large businesses aren't hiring to begin with. Yes there are some exceptions but for the most part businesses are holding on to the extra money they are making

We are scared of this president and his democrats in congress. And from the conversations I have had with customers and suppliers, there is a large amount of businesses which are simply trying to wait out this presidency, which makes the economy even worse.

and making their workers work more. Today workers are working 2 and half times more than they did 20 years ago and getting paid far less. I say tax the well to do $250,000+ and tax even more the wealthy.

$250,000 is nothing for a small business. Even in our worst year, we make more than that, a lot more. You don't understand what it takes to keep a business moving forward. It's not the same thing as an individual making $250,000 per year in a salary.

How much does someone need to live comfortably: 30mill, 60mill, a billion? How much money is enough?

This is what drives the capitalist system and allows us to live in the best country in the world with the highest standard of living. Greed drives capitalism. It is a natural human emotion. Denying it is not natural or right.

When we have CEO's and other officers of the company making several hundred times more than the average worker, I say tax the sons of bitches. If they don't want to pay their people other than table scrapings, the people that make them the money, then the hell with them. Tax the shit out of them.

You want to see an outright depression? Do that.

The middle-class is already eroding away because of this huge disparity. The rich are getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

There is opportunity out there for upward mobility. The major cause of this disparity is our trade deficit. The good paying jobs for the average person are going away. Ironically, if you want to do something about it, you will need to put someone like Donald Trump in office to solve the problem.