Page 18 of 38 FirstFirst ... 81516171819202128 ... LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 374

Thread: Hurricane Katrina...

  1. #171
    Poster
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    1,157
    Okay....which one are you.....the Mayor of New Orleans or the Governor of Lousianna?

    To be serious, for a disaster of this magnitude, even the best laid plans can fail. But to not plan or prepare in an area known for hurricane activity.......how can that be wise?

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #172
    Santa's Avatar dvhyt5er
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    1
    Posts
    2,050
    found the interview with the mayor
    think its from friday
    (14 min)
    http://www.atypical.net/mm/nagin.mp3

    full transcript here
    http://tradermike.net/movethecrowd/a..._interview.php
    Last edited by 15%; 09-06-2005 at 02:11 AM.

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #173
    Busyman's Avatar Use Logic Or STFU!!!
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Washington D.C.
    Posts
    13,716
    Quote Originally Posted by Everose
    I disagree with you, Busy. Emergency Preparedness has to do with preparing for any emergency in the area. I do agree that an act of terrorism is definitely an emergency to be prepared for.
    Well Evey, you engulf the entire thing into Emergency Prepardness. I did not.
    It IS Emergency Prepardness but I choose to separate natural disaster relief from anti-terrorism. They are different. The way I worded my post made that CaptainObvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Everose
    Which is it? Is Bush a security minded cowboy as you seem to say a lot of people think, or does he not care about national security? Yesterday you claimed he didn't give a shit. Now he is way too security minded because he allocates money for terrorism emergencies.
    Bush puts forth the notion yet is shit at follow through. Mmk? Putting forth the money means shit if the proper oversight isn't in place to make sure it is spent properly.

    What is he good at? Apparently remaining President of the United States. You have to hand it to him....that isn't easy for any man these days.
    He's good at playing Bible card to the poor and religious right and the money card to the rich. Some of those are the same people of course.
    If your poor and religious - "Hey I'm not good for your job situation but I don't like gays."
    If your rich - "I'll put money in your pocket."

    Quote Originally Posted by Everose
    Guess I don't understand your 'They can afford to now' statement, Busy. First you were running with the 'we can't afford to because of Iraq.' Now you are saying we all of a sudden can afford to.
    I never said we can't afford to because of Iraq. Wtf?!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Everose
    Please explain to me exactly what you think the federal government should have done here. Sent the National Guard and the US Coast Guard in before the levee broke? Who would have rescued them? As it was, the Coast Guard had to retrieve a lot of it's own people before it could rescue others. I am thankful someone had the sense not to send the National Guard in before they did. Then we would have had even longer delays, no?
    Sent rescuers in a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Everose
    A lot of effort has been put forth here to explain responsibilities of self, city, parish and state in this situation, also. I really feel the federal government met its responsibilities as quickly as possible. But the local effort failed miserably. Why did they not prepare for this, knowing a lot of their citizens didn't have the means to get out by themselves. And also knowing a lot of them would choose not to, even given that choice? I look around in my own city and I am aware who would need assistance out of here. For me to expect the federal government to know is absurd. Are you suggesting the Department of Defense should have had time to be in these areas, on the ground with buses, food and supplies before the levee broke? Just in case of?
    No
    Quote Originally Posted by Everose
    You are angry about some baseball stadium when the schools in your area need work; you should be and have a right to that anger. Was the stadium put up for a bond issue/public vote? Have the schools attempted bond issues to repair and rebuild? Has the public voted these bond issues down?
    The stadium was being built with taxpayer money and extra tax on area businesses. One councilwoman did step in and got part private financing in the 11th hour.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everose
    First you say that our borders are going to shit and imply nothing is being done. Then you say it is not our problem. Which is it, Busyman?
    The problems of illegal immigrants are not ours besides the fact they shouldn't be here. Oh damn...I said that already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everose
    I am getting dizzy trying to follow you. No oversight on what? By whom?
    Oversight on how federal money is being spent. If there is oversight, it's shit oversight.
    Last edited by Busyman; 09-06-2005 at 02:54 AM.
    Silly bitch, your weapons cannot harm me. Don't you know who I am? I'm the Juggernaut, Bitchhhh!

    Flies Like An Arrow, Flies Like An Apple
    ---12323---4552-----
    2133--STRENGTH--8310
    344---5--5301---3232

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #174
    GepperRankins's Avatar we want your oil!
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    the suburbs. honestment
    Age
    39
    Posts
    8,527
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4214516.stm

    gotta love teh BBC



    i wanna refute what you babyeaters say but i just can't be arsed.

    the truth is it's bushs fault for not allowing new orleans repair it's sea defences. then as an attempt to save face he wouldn't let people clean up new orleans until he showed up. ironically he caused hundreds of deaths and prolonged looting and increased anarchy because of the few days he stalled so he could turn up to show he cared. i know you'll have none of this though, there's hardly any point in trying to say anything.


    PS. to refute what you said about the red cross. the government wanted the national guard to do it alone. this was to try and counter everyones claims that a third of them being in iraq made them less effective. this caused more death and destruction.
    Last edited by GepperRankins; 09-06-2005 at 03:35 AM.

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #175
    MediaSlayer's Avatar slowly going deaf
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    ur anus
    Posts
    2,761
    Quote Originally Posted by BigBank_Hank
    I do Manker. People here act like hurricanes are something new and are quick to point fingers at Bush. They act like he’s been the only President that the U.S. has had and every little thing that goes wrong is his fault.
    Every little thing? You know what you sound like to me? You sound like a desperate woman taking up for her abusive boyfriend. No matter how bad he beats you, you always come back for more. To quote one of my favorite movies ,"Dog Day Afternoon", Sonny says "kiss me". To which the agent replies "huh?". Then his reply "I like to be kissed when I'm being fucked". I hope you saw the movie, for the sake of context.

    And who is being fucked here? That drippy, slippery feeling coming from your ass should give you the first clue, America.

    Here is your 2nd.


    I don't want to ask a silly question, but...
    Why the deuce would there be language in there about engaging in hostile enviromental modification techniques if the technology does not exist yet? That would be like including a clause like, "no country may use it's super secret carrot powered death ray on another country". Something doesn't add up. They do not say specifically "weather warfare" but that is one of the issues addressed, whether they said it bluntly or not. And what's scarier is that was a long ass time ago, imagine what progress they have made in the meantime. BTW, i read somewhere that kim sung is purported to control the weather of that country, according to his own people.

    Now let's see, things going wrong, bush.... hmm

    Well let's start with the obvious.

    Under Clinton we had a good economy(we HAD a national surplus, not a debt), a prez who cared about the enviroment(have you seen Texas strip mining in person? I have), some glint of middle east peace(although it did fail), a remarkably unified country, and a great deal of security(although we took it for granted then).

    Under Bush we have: a world that seems to be falling apart at the seams, a terminally ill economy(for my educated friends the aol keyword is "floating-point exchange, tee hee), scary judicial nominees, civil rights being eroded at a rate that would make mussolini proud, a "natural" disaster that just so happens to harm DC's fav target group(black people), a national debt so high that the ceiling had to be changed by congress, a court that allows this "eminent domain" shit to take privately owned land by brute force for the sake of the community, a president who just sat by and watched not one, but 2 large scale disasters from the comfort of his helicopters and luxury planes while doing nothing, some really unneccessary and irresponsible tax cuts that worsened the national debt, a patriot act that makes big brother a real possibility, and a host of other ridiculous things that I won't go into.

    I fucking wonder which one is better. Give me time, I'll figure it out.

    Wake up people, there is no such thing as terrorism, only confused people who don't understand what is happening. How many of you remember being 5 years old and having your parents use "the boogie monster" hiding in the closet to scare you into behaving? Did it work?

    oh and i didn't fact check or spell check, there is not enough time on this terminal at the moment.

    and what's with sandra day, and rhenquist?

    how conveineint it would be, for all of them to either retire or die, so bush can appoint more neo-crats

    edit:this guy figured some shit out, and look what happened.
    Last edited by MediaSlayer; 09-06-2005 at 07:03 AM.


    sending fiery missiles in manker's japan's general direction.

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #176
    DanB's Avatar Smoke weed everyday
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    London, so fuck y'all
    Age
    46
    Posts
    20,595
    Why didn't they enforce mandatory evacuation like they are now before the storm hit?

    From what I can understand everyone that could leave did, the others that remained had no ways/means to get out until the so called rescue effort started.


    Its good to see that the soldiers are treating the African American looters like they did the Iraqi looters and shooting them though
    Last edited by DanB; 09-06-2005 at 08:51 AM.

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #177
    RPerry's Avatar Synergy BT Rep: Bad Rep
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Lakeland, Florida
    Age
    51
    Posts
    3,268
    Quote Originally Posted by DanB
    Why didn't they enforce mandatory evacuation like they are now before the storm hit?

    From what I can understand everyone that could leave did, the others that remained had no ways/means to get out until the so called rescue effort started.


    Its good to see that the soldiers are treating the African American looters like they did the Iraqi looters and shooting them though
    Everyone that could leave didn't, though they are happy to leave now. And even better than the soilders were the people in the Superdome who beat to death the guy who raped and killed the 12 yr old girl in the bathroom

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #178
    whypikonme's Avatar Unemployable
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    233
    Quote Originally Posted by Busyman
    So far, the only thing seems to be Afghanistan, which was a no brainer. .
    Really? Please explain exactly what it was that he got right in Afghanistan.
    Sig Removed...too clever

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #179
    DanB's Avatar Smoke weed everyday
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    London, so fuck y'all
    Age
    46
    Posts
    20,595
    Quote Originally Posted by RPerry
    And even better than the soilders were the people in the Superdome who beat to death the guy who raped and killed the 12 yr old girl in the bathroom

    Sorry, you seem to say that like its a bad thing?

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #180
    DanB's Avatar Smoke weed everyday
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    London, so fuck y'all
    Age
    46
    Posts
    20,595
    This is quite an interesting article which spreads the blame evenly


    Multiple failures caused relief crisis
    Analysis By Paul Reynolds
    World Affairs correspondent, BBC News website

    The breakdown of the relief operation in New Orleans was the result of multiple failures by city, state and federal authorities.

    There was no one cause. The failures began long before the hurricane with a gamble that a Category Four or Five hurricane would not strike New Orleans.

    They continued with an inadequate evacuation plan and culminated in a relief effort hampered by lack of planning, supplies and manpower, and a breakdown in communications of the most basic sort.

    On top of all this, there is the question of whether an earlier intervention by President Bush could have a made a big difference.

    The planning

    Before Hurricane Katrina struck, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema) was confident that it was ready. Its director, Michael Brown, said: "Fema has pre-positioned many assets including ice, water, food and rescue teams to move into the stricken areas as soon as it is safe to do so."

    Mr Brown even told the Associated Press news agency that the evacuation had gone well. "I was impressed with the evacuation, once it was ordered it was very smooth," he said.

    Yet on Saturday 28 August, the day before the evacuation was ordered, Mr Brown did not say that people should leave the city. All he said was:

    "There's still time to take action now, but you must be prepared and take shelter and other emergency precautions immediately."

    This has made Fema appear complacent in the period immediately before the hurricane arrived. If it did not expect the worst, it would not have prepared for the worst.

    The Brown statement went out on the same day that the National Hurricane Center was warning that Katrina was strengthening to the top Category Five. Everyone knew the dangers of a Category Five. A Fema exercise last year called "Hurricane Pam" had looked at a Category Three, and that was bad enough.

    The evacuation

    It was announced at a news conference by the Mayor Ray Nagin on Sunday 28 August, less than 24 hours before the hurricane struck early the next morning.

    The question has to be asked: Why was it not ordered earlier?

    The Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco said at the same news conference that President Bush had called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation.

    The night before, National Hurricane Director Max Mayfield had called Mayor Nagin to tell him that an evacuation was needed. Why were these calls necessary?

    Again, as with Fema, the New Orleans mayor should have known that on the Saturday, Katrina was strengthening to Five.

    It was already clear on the Sunday that the evacuation would not cover many of the poor, the sick and those who did not pay heed.

    The mayor said people going to the Superdome, a sports venue named as an alternative destination for those unable to leave, should bring supplies for several days. He also said police could commandeer any vehicle for the evacuation.

    But how much support was there at the Superdome? And how much city transport was actually used? There is a photo showing city school buses still lined up, in waterlogged parking lots, after the hurricane.

    There are questions for the mayor, dubbed heroic by some, to answer.

    The relief operation

    The scenes which most shocked the world were at the Superdome and the nearby Convention Center. Yet it turns out that neither Mr Brown nor his boss, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, knew about the crises there until Thursday.

    This, despite numerous television reports from the scene. It was not until Friday that the first relief convoy arrived.


    It was midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was no possibility of plugging the gap, and that essentially the lake was going to drain into the city
    Michael Chertoff, Homeland Security Secretary

    "The very day that this emerged in the press, I was on a video conference with all the officials, including state and local officials. And nobody, none of the state and local officials or anybody else, was talking about a Convention Center," Chertoff told CNN. Note how he blames local officials.

    Nor did he know about the breach in the floodwalls until a day later.

    "It was midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was no possibility of plugging the gap, and that essentially the lake was going to drain into the city," he said on NBC.

    Other, more successful operations, notably the airlift by the Coast Guard, should be acknowledged.

    And in a disaster area the size of Great Britain, resources were stretched.

    But ironically the failure at the Convention Center would have been fairly easy to put right. Reporters drove there without problems. One took a taxi.

    What one wonders was Fema/the mayor's office/the governor's office doing while all that was played out on live TV?

    One lesson agencies might want to learn is that someone senior should do nothing but monitor TV.

    Some of this might explain why people at the Superdome and the Convention Center had to wait so long. It does not explain why communications were not better.

    Another sign of slowness was that the Department of Homeland Security did not issue the first ever declaration of an "incident of national significance" until the Wednesday. Such a declaration allows the federal government a greater role in taking decisions.

    In fact, the arguments between federal and state authorities about who was able to do what is another part of this story.

    The Department of Homeland Security said the local authorities were inadequate. The locals responded that Fema had been obstructive - it had, for example, stopped three truckloads of water sent by the store Wal-Mart. And so on.

    It took days to sort out who should send troops and from where.

    Nor does Governor Blanco escape criticism. It took until Thursday, for example, for her to sign an order releasing school buses to move the evacuees.

    The president's response

    Mr Bush has been blamed for failing to rise to the occasion. His critics argue that he took too long to get back to Washington and did not provide the inspirational leadership needed at such a time. Nor, it is said, did he intervene early enough to get things moving.

    Washington Post correspondent Dan Balz concluded:

    "Anger has been focused on Bush and his administration to a degree unprecedented in his presidency. Senator Mary Landrieu [a Louisiana Democrat] said in an ABC News interview that aired Sunday that she would consider punching the president and others for their response to what happened there. Local officials, some in tears, have angrily accused the administration of callousness and negligence."

    The president's defenders point out that it was he who urged an evacuation of New Orleans (he has no legal power to order one) and that he did acknowledge the "unacceptable" pace of the relief effort. Further, they say that aid is now flowing and reconstruction will take place.

    Another issue for Mr Bush is why Michael Brown was appointed director of Fema. He had previously been its deputy and had been hired as its general counsel by the director Joe Allbaugh. He played a role in studying the government's response to national emergencies. Before that Mr Brown, a lawyer from Oklahoma, had run the Arab horse association.

    Senator Hillary Clinton has said that Fema should be removed from the Homeland Security Department and made an independent agency again.

    The gamble

    When Hurricane Camille, a rare top Category Five storm, hit Mississippi in 1969, just missing New Orleans, the levees around the city were strengthened - but only enough to protect against a Category Three hurricane.

    The gamble was taken that another Category Five would not threaten New Orleans anytime soon. This attitude prevailed among successive administrations.

    Lt General Carl Strock, the Army Corps of Engineers commander, admitted that there was a collective mindset - that New Orleans would not be hit. Washington rolled the dice, he said.

    After flooding in 1995, the existing system was improved. However, the sums were relatively small. About $500m was spent over the next 10 years.

    From 2003 onwards, the Bush administration cut funds amid charges from the Army Corps of Engineers that the money was transferred to Iraq instead. The latest annual budget was cut from $36.5m to $10.4m.

    A study to examine defences against a category Four or Five storm was proposed, at a cost of $4m. The Times-Picayune quoted the Army Corps of Engineers project manager Al Naomi as saying: "The Iraq war forced the Bush administration to order the New Orleans district office not to begin any new studies."

    But in any event, there was no plan for a major strengthening. This would have taken billions of dollars and many years.

    And an Army Corps of Engineers spokeswoman, Connie Gillette, said there had never been any plans or funds to improve those floodwalls which had failed.

    It is a long and complex chain of responsibility.

    All these issues, and many more, will now be the subject of congressional and other inquiries.
    Source

Page 18 of 38 FirstFirst ... 81516171819202128 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •