Bush's immigration policy

[Everose]

I think that has basically already been achieved. Except, of course, for their protection. But then I suppose it isn't that hard for them to get guns, either. ;-)

Just so.

It seems I've started a fire hereabout.

I can never remember to bring the hotdogs...

No, no fire, J2. Too scattered right now to focus much on anything but family and friends in Houston. Just have a lot of questions that it doesn't seem anyone has the answers for regarding our southern border. Frustrated that I can't find the answers myself, if anything.

[Rat Faced]

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

ah... missed the small print at the bottom. Sorry.

Please make sure they have money, speak english, are educated and fill in the appropriate forms in triplicate 1st. Being whitish and Christian is an advantage but not necessary as our Utah Branch will be calling soon to discuss the belief issue in the North, and local residents will make sure you conform to local customs in the South. Being allowed to enter does not confire any rights upon attendee's however they can then be entered into the monthly Green Card Lottery. Please be advised that "Free" is used in its fullest sense: Free to Starve or die of easily treatable disease if Health Insurance is not taken out. The Government of the USA cannot be held responsible for anything in any way whatsoever, and neither can their sponsors.

[vidcc]

A "background check"?

That's hilarious.

We can't even begin to manage to naturalize these interlopers, yet we're going to do "background checks"?

By what miracle is this to be accomplished?

I am not talking about naturalizing anyone, I am talking about knowing who is here, for me it is a security issue. If you believe that such security measures don't work as the "bad guys" will step round them please write to the GOP as we are wasting tax dollars on a futile efforts at airports.
My belief is that a Mexican that wants to work here would be likely to sign up as he would be able to work and not worry about deportation. Of course not all would sign up but I believe a significant number would.

We could "eliminate" illegal immigration in a heartbeat by accommodating the laws that have to do with entering the country rather than ignoring them altogether; I would bet we could reduce it to statistically zero merely by cracking down.

Your (and Bush's) entire scenario presupposes a level of cooperation on the part of the transient Mexican (and his/her government) that will never be achieved via any amnesty program, I can assure you.

I said I don't oppose the idea entirely, it is a compromise that will reduce undocumented aliens. I also said I don't believe we can eliminate illegals. We could significantly reduce reduce the number with a crack down, and I agree our borders should be secured, but from a fiscal viewpoint I wonder would the conservative taxpayer stand for it.
Our lawmakers spend our tax politically and not in my view wisely.

It is American commerce that is the problem. The company mantra is to make as much profit while paying as little as possible. So low paid Mexicans get jobs. We as a nation want cheap everything. If you wish to punish companies that employ migrant workers put in the leg work and find produce from other companies....you do believe in market forces ?

Of course with such a "guest worker scheme" in place penalties for a company that still employs illegals should be completely over the top.

[j2k4]

I am not talking about naturalizing anyone, I am talking about knowing who is here, for me it is a security issue. If you believe that such security measures don't work as the "bad guys" will step round them please write to the GOP as we are wasting tax dollars on a futile efforts at airports.
My belief is that a Mexican that wants to work here would be likely to sign up as he would be able to work and not worry about deportation. Of course not all would sign up but I believe a significant number would.

We could "eliminate" illegal immigration in a heartbeat by accommodating the laws that have to do with entering the country rather than ignoring them altogether; I would bet we could reduce it to statistically zero merely by cracking down.

Your (and Bush's) entire scenario presupposes a level of cooperation on the part of the transient Mexican (and his/her government) that will never be achieved via any amnesty program, I can assure you.

I said I don't oppose the idea entirely, it is a compromise that will reduce undocumented aliens. I also said I don't believe we can eliminate illegals. We could significantly reduce reduce the number with a crack down, and I agree our borders should be secured, but from a fiscal viewpoint I wonder would the conservative taxpayer stand for it.
Our lawmakers spend our tax politically and not in my view wisely.

It is American commerce that is the problem. The company mantra is to make as much profit while paying as little as possible. So low paid Mexicans get jobs. We as a nation want cheap everything. If you wish to punish companies that employ migrant workers put in the leg work and find produce from other companies....you do believe in market forces ?

Of course with such a "guest worker scheme" in place penalties for a company that still employs illegals should be completely over the top.

Who did these jobs before the low-paid Mexicans?

The market forces are inexorable, vid.

In any case, as to the criminal element-why would they accede to an immigration policy which requires them to identify themselves?

The sheer numbers of illegal border-crossers is what makes this easy for them and difficult for us, and this "policy" will not likely change anything; any impetus to collect taxes from these laborers will cause their wages to rise to a level commensurate with what some Democrat will demand on their behalf as "life-sustaining".

There goes the cheap labor...

[vidcc]

Who did these jobs before the low-paid Mexicans?

Low paid Americans...you know, the ones the republicans insist are to blame for their own poverty. Now I think you will point to this as evedence that the minimum wage costs jobs and we should abolish it...but then how would you blame poverty on lazyness?

The market forces are inexorable, vid.

annoying isn't it

In any case, as to the criminal element-why would they accede to an immigration policy which requires them to identify themselves?

show me where I said they would.

The sheer numbers of illegal border-crossers is what makes this easy for them and difficult for us, and this "policy" will not likely change anything

Again I stated I am not totally opposed to it. I didn't say I supported it 100%, it is far away from a total solution but it is a compromise to commerce that encourages the cheap Mexican worker and the American consumer that likes to buy things cheap.

any impetus to collect taxes from these laborers will cause their wages to rise to a level commensurate with what some Democrat will demand on their behalf as "life-sustaining".

There goes the cheap labor...

Problem sloved then, who is going to employ a Mexican if they have to pay the same as they would have to pay an American?...no jobs no migrant workers.
Perhaps you feel that the rise will encourage firms to just employ the undocumented workers again but as i said then the punishment should be totally over the top.

[j2k4]

Low paid Americans...you know, the ones the republicans insist are to blame for their own poverty. Now I think you will point to this as evedence that the minimum wage costs jobs and we should abolish it...but then how would you blame poverty on lazyness?

That the "minimum wage costs jobs and we should abolish it" allows us to "blame poverty on laziness"?

I don't follow you on that one.

The market forces are inexorable, vid.

annoying isn't it

In any case, as to the criminal element-why would they accede to an immigration policy which requires them to identify themselves?

show me where I said they would.

How does one acquire "background information" or "documentation" on unidentified individuals, vid?

The sheer numbers of illegal border-crossers is what makes this easy for them and difficult for us, and this "policy" will not likely change anything

Again I stated I am not totally opposed to it. I didn't say I supported it 100%, it is far away from a total solution but it is a compromise to commerce that encourages the cheap Mexican worker and the American consumer that likes to buy things cheap.

any impetus to collect taxes from these laborers will cause their wages to rise to a level commensurate with what some Democrat will demand on their behalf as "life-sustaining".

There goes the cheap labor...

Problem sloved then, who is going to employ a Mexican if they have to pay the same as they would have to pay an American?...no jobs no migrant workers.
Perhaps you feel that the rise will encourage firms to just employ the undocumented workers again but as i said then the punishment should be totally over the top.

I can't go any further with this silliness, vid.

Please post something that makes sense, any sense at all...

[vidcc]

I can't go any further with this silliness, vid.

Please post something that makes sense, any sense at all...

Well if you are going to be pointless yourself then there is no point continuing with you.

[j2k4]

I can't go any further with this silliness, vid.

Please post something that makes sense, any sense at all...

Well if you are going to be pointless yourself then there is no point continuing with you.

Correct-there is no point in your continuing with me.

Unless, of course, you begin to make some sort of sense.

[Rat Faced]

Since when has the American minimum wage been "Life Sustaining"?

There is so much evidence that shows long hours are life threatening that they had to bring in a maximum number of hours you can work in most occupations in Europe, and although this is 48 hours, its recommended at less than 37.

So, 40 * 5 = $200 per week to feed and house a family, plus pay for medical insurance...

Due to your tax system, i think they pay the tax and claim it back? Therefore they have, de facto, a lot LESS than this..

Life sustaining??

No wonder Trailer Parks are so popular over there, and various crime is so popular a pastime.. I'd probably end up selling drugs to feed my family too if paid that

[j2k4]

Since when has the American minimum wage been "Life Sustaining"?

There is so much evidence that shows long hours are life threatening that they had to bring in a maximum number of hours you can work in most occupations in Europe, and although this is 48 hours, its recommended at less than 37.

So, 40 * 5 = $200 per week to feed and house a family, plus pay for medical insurance...

Due to your tax system, i think they pay the tax and claim it back? Therefore they have, de facto, a lot LESS than this..

Life sustaining??

No wonder Trailer Parks are so popular over there, and various crime is so popular a pastime.. I'd probably end up selling drugs to feed my family too if paid that

Oh, for fuck's sake, Rat-you believe the canard that every minimum-wage employee in the U.S. is supporting a family?

Those who wish it raised are more than happy to entertain such ignorance, as it plays to their strength.

Any "family" living on minimum wage is heavily supplemented by an incredibly comprehensive federal entitlement menu; people who live in such circumstances do not accrue medical bills such as those of mine that I have occasionally referred to.

Much of my tax burden goes to assuring that this remains so.