Ho hum, another huge hurricane...

[j2k4]

Not balanced like Fox?

I think things have progressed/regressed well beyond any useful discussion of balance in any information medium.

They're all tainted, and Auntie Beeb is ideologically syphilitic.

My opinion, of course.

[Santa]

Strange then how the Whitehouse had to withdraw their accusation that she had not asked for federal help, after it was pointed out she asked for it officially 2 days BEFORE the landfall.... reported in your media at that time (Ialready posted where in that timetable).

according to time magazine
on the ....friday after the hurricanne, Bush asked Blanco if she would be willing to relinquish control of the local law enforcement and 13,268 national guard troops from 29 states.
"Blanco considered this an odd move given that federal control would not in itself mean any additional troops, and would prohibit the guard under Possecomitatus act from acting as policemen. She thought the request had a political motive. It would allow Washington to come in and claim credit for a relief operation that was already in progress".....

[j2k4]

Why, thank you, Zed.

[GepperRankins]

what's ideological syphilis?

[Santa]

one question
did hurricane rita not just pass over northern Cuba and other islands north of cuba/ south of florida?
there has been no news from that side of the world

[j2k4]

By golly, you're right.

Haven't heard a thing, and I have news on all day, every day...

[Everose]

I don't. I have a friend who has helped in the Astrodome in downtown Houston. 70% of them are sitting around letting women volunteers wait on them hand and foot........able bodied young men that should be able to look out and lend a hand to themselves when it comes to daily chores. But no, they make comments like they shouldn't have to do stuff for themselves, because after all, they are victims of the hurricane.

And you want me to feel generous about them? That 70% doesn't deserve it.

Generousity? Who the fuck are you?

Just me, Busy. I am one that if I had a relative that I knew would not be able to evacuate his or herself in the event of an impending hurricane, and that relative lived in an area known to be effected, I myself would do my best to see that plans were made for this relative's evacuation when necessary. I guess I just don't see myself not taking responsibility myself and then pointing fingers at a distant federal government

I also find it rather disturbing that you seem to feel that I am defending Bush or the Federal Government by saying we as American's shouldn't count on either of them being right there the minute we need them. If our country was the size of say, Texas, I would probably feel differently about it. But as it is......if we are to expect this 'instant federal help'....why do we have local and state governments that also tax us for first responders and emergency preparedness?

Kind of different expectations, I guess. If I lived where you lived I would expect federal government help much sooner.





It seems these "facts" that you state precluded a rescue effort for 5 days. That Bush must be a precog.....

If I could understand what you mean here, I would try and answer you.

100% I heard they sustained winds up to 60 to 70 miles per hour....gusting into 90 miles an hour. A lot of evacuees there, too, around twenty thousand in shelters, another two hundred thousand or so housed with relatives. We should know more though, and hope to get more info soon.

[Busyman]

Generousity? Who the fuck are you?

Just me, Busy. I am one that if I had a relative that I knew would not be able to evacuate his or herself in the event of an impending hurricane, and that relative lived in an area known to be effected, I myself would do my best to see that plans were made for this relative's evacuation when necessary. I guess I just don't see myself not taking responsibility myself and then pointing fingers at a distant federal government

I also find it rather disturbing that you seem to feel that I am defending Bush or the Federal Government by saying we as American's shouldn't count on either of them being right there the minute we need them. If our country was the size of say, Texas, I would probably feel differently about it. But as it is......if we are to expect this 'instant federal help'....why do we have local and state governments that also tax us for first responders and emergency preparedness?

Kind of different expectations, I guess. If I lived where you lived I would expect federal government help much sooner.





It seems these "facts" that you state precluded a rescue effort for 5 days. That Bush must be a precog.....

If I could understand what you mean here, I would try and answer you.

5 days Evey. You would agree that this was not a normal disaster by any stretch wouldn't you?

What if the Feds were never called? You think they should've waited some more? Maybe Bush could go, "Well...they didn't call us."

Use the noggin.

Irregardless to the evacuation, you are reaching.

There are some that will not be evacuated. Your school of thought is, "Too bad." A blanket statement that sucks. You don't know everyone's situation. Everyone situation doesn't match (your made up) 70% in the Astrodome.

It sounds like you actually are defending Bush 'cause with what you say.....it sounds like he has no culpabilty. He sat and waited for the call and didn't get it...."What was he supposed to do?"...."if I don't get the call then I can't possibly help the worst natural disaster in American history"..."Only most of a small part of the US is under water and the leaders didn't call me in a timely manner so those fuckers down will wait...wait a work week."

[Everose]

If I could understand what you mean here, I would try and answer you.

5 days Evey. You would agree that this was not a normal disaster by any stretch wouldn't you?

What if the Feds were never called? You think they should've waited some more? Maybe Bush could go, "Well...they didn't call us."

Use the noggin. Was that necessary?

Irregardless to the evacuation, you are reaching.

For what am I reaching? A lesson learned...notes took? Yes, then you are right......I am reaching. I guess it seems to be a starting point that we are disputing, you and I.........from what point do we start our notes for our lessons learned?

There are some that will not be evacuated. Your school of thought is, "Too bad." A blanket statement that sucks. You don't know everyone's situation. Everyone situation doesn't match (your made up) 70% in the Astrodome.

No, actually that is not my school of thought 'too bad'. How did you come to this conclusion. Oh, I see what is bugging you. No, it is not made up. It is the perception of a friend of mine who has volunteered there. Actually, I had read an article of a man who was volunteering there. He put the percentages out based on his perspective and the fact that not only would they not do any physical labor, like help move beds, but they wouldn't even clean their dinner space, but left it for volunteers to clean. And not only that, but when offered bottled water, they complained and insisted on pop. And when offered pop, they complained and demanded beer. When offered very good food, they complained that they wanted McDonalds, Burger King or Pizza. I found his percentages and his rant a little hard to believe and asked my friend about it thinking it surely wasn't true. She sadly agreed with him, but very much wanted me to know that 10 % are ill or really can't help themselves and 20% or so are very appreciative of the help they are getting, and do all they can to help themselves and others. I wouldn't let it get my back up Busy...it is just perceptions. And maybe after they are over the shock of it all, they will kick in and do their part in the recovery. My response could have been a little jaded as my friend is health compromised herself right now and I am a bit worried and stressed that she placed herself in that position at this time, anyway. Sorry if I came across as flippant, but those were the perceptions given me by someone whose perceptions I do tend to trust.

It sounds like you actually are defending Bush 'cause with what you say.....it sounds like he has no culpabilty. He sat and waited for the call and didn't get it...."What was he supposed to do?"...."if I don't get the call then I can't possibly help the worst natural disaster in American history"..."Only most of a small part of the US is under water and the leaders didn't call me in a timely manner so those fuckers down will wait...wait a work week."

I do not like Bush, Busy. But I feel I know enough about what we can reasonably expect from local, state and federal governments when. And I don't really want a federal government that charges right in and interferes militarily in states' affairs. The few times they have done this haven't sat well with the states, you know. So yes, there is a protocol. Actually, I would be a lot more concerned about a President that thought he was all powerful that way. And it would be nice if we could pick and choose. Have an all powerful federal government when we want it and not one when we don't want it. There are a lot of issues that need examined here. Locally, State and Federally. I just don't leap to the federal as fast as you do. Heck, I am still pissed that a lot of the levee board's funds were diverted to their plans to build a resort island there. Guess I just don't expect or demand as much from old Bush as you do.

[Busyman]

5 days Evey. You would agree that this was not a normal disaster by any stretch wouldn't you?

What if the Feds were never called? You think they should've waited some more? Maybe Bush could go, "Well...they didn't call us."

Use the noggin. Was that necessary?

Irregardless to the evacuation, you are reaching.

For what am I reaching? A lesson learned...notes took? Yes, then you are right......I am reaching. I guess it seems to be a starting point that we are disputing, you and I.........from what point do we start our notes for our lessons learned?

There are some that will not be evacuated. Your school of thought is, "Too bad." A blanket statement that sucks. You don't know everyone's situation. Everyone situation doesn't match (your made up) 70% in the Astrodome.

No, actually that is not my school of thought 'too bad'. How did you come to this conclusion. Oh, I see what is bugging you. No, it is not made up. It is the perception of a friend of mine who has volunteered there. Actually, I had read an article of a man who was volunteering there. He put the percentages out based on his perspective and the fact that not only would they not do any physical labor, like help move beds, but they wouldn't even clean their dinner space, but left it for volunteers to clean. And not only that, but when offered bottled water, they complained and insisted on pop. And when offered pop, they complained and demanded beer. When offered very good food, they complained that they wanted McDonalds, Burger King or Pizza. I found his percentages and his rant a little hard to believe and asked my friend about it thinking it surely wasn't true. She sadly agreed with him, but very much wanted me to know that 10 % are ill or really can't help themselves and 20% or so are very appreciative of the help they are getting, and do all they can to help themselves and others. I wouldn't let it get my back up Busy...it is just perceptions. And maybe after they are over the shock of it all, they will kick in and do their part in the recovery. My response could have been a little jaded as my friend is health compromised herself right now and I am a bit worried and stressed that she placed herself in that position at this time, anyway. Sorry if I came across as flippant, but those were the perceptions given me by someone whose perceptions I do tend to trust.

Hey it could very well be 70%. However, the fact that you brought this up in context with talking about a 5 day rescue speaks volumes. I hate the fact that money is being given to help folks with essentials and some is being spent on glamour items. I wouldn't bring it up right after there's a remark about Bush though.

Person 1 - "Bush took 5 days to mount a rescue operation"
Person 2 - "Those people down there are not even helping in the Astrodome and all they do is complain."



It sounds like you actually are defending Bush 'cause with what you say.....it sounds like he has no culpabilty. He sat and waited for the call and didn't get it...."What was he supposed to do?"...."if I don't get the call then I can't possibly help the worst natural disaster in American history"..."Only most of a small part of the US is under water and the leaders didn't call me in a timely manner so those fuckers down will wait...wait a work week."

I do not like Bush, Busy. But I feel I know enough about what we can reasonably expect from local, state and federal governments when. And I don't really want a federal government that charges right in and interferes militarily in states' affairs. The few times they have done this haven't sat well with the states, you know. So yes, there is a protocol. Actually, I would be a lot more concerned about a President that thought he was all powerful that way. And it would be nice if we could pick and choose. Have an all powerful federal government when we want it and not one when we don't want it. There are a lot of issues that need examined here. Locally, State and Federally. I just don't leap to the federal as fast as you do. Heck, I am still pissed that a lot of the levee board's funds were diverted to their plans to build a resort island there. Guess I just don't expect or demand as much from old Bush as you do.

Uh yeah like charging in when the biggest natural disaster hits this country.(oops I said that already). But Oh man, honor that hierarchy and shit!!!

Again use the noggin'. This ain't a matter of simple interference Evey. Don't compare this to something like a bank robbery or serial killer investigation.....but oh shit, the Feds jump right in there 'cause it's in the manual and warrants the Feds serious attention as opposed to.........a great chunk of a state of the United States under water.