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Thread: 14 Yrs Old Vs Jack Thompson

  1. #1
    Dark Steno's Avatar lol fang tan
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    For those who does not know, Jack Thompson is a lawyer on a 'crusade' againts video games and blames them for violence.

    Source : - http://croqaudile.com/?article_id=10299

    BEGIN QUOTE

    I found a link to your site, www.stopkill.com, through an online forum. I looked over it,and although I think that there is some genuine concern over the effect of violent media on kids, many of your statements on that site were made in ignorance. What I plan to do in this email is to help you gain a better understanding of video games, and to show you that while your intentions are good, your current course of action is a mistake. I'm going to present my arguments calmly and logically, and you're welcome to write a rebuttal if you wish. First off, let me tell you a little about myself.

    I'm 14, and I've been playing video games avidly since I was 8. I'm pretty knowledgeable about the subject of video games as a whole, and I've played my fair share of Halo 2 and other shooters, including the Ghost Recon series, which is regarded as one of the most realistic FPSs (first-person shooters, in case you aren't familiar with the terminology). I also enjoy strategy games, in which the death toll is often far higher than what you'd encounter in a FPS. I'm an archer, a martial artist (Tae Kwon Do), and I was taught how to operate a gun by my grandfather, who's an experienced hunter. And, oddly enough, I've never felt the urge to kill, or even seriously injure, anyone. I imagine that killing in self-defence would be extremely difficult for me, despite my alleged desensitization.

    Now I'd like to dismiss a misonception (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and not assuming that you're twisting the truth) you have about games like Halo, which are called FPSs. These are not "sniper games." They are games presented in first person, in which you shoot enemies, manage ammunition, and explore levels. You may fail to see the distinction between "sniper" and "first person" based on that description alone, but if you ever take the time to play any of these games, you'll understand that there is no comparison between playing a FPS and operating a rifle. Which brings me to my next point- games can't accurately "train" you to commit violent acts, despite your claims. First off, games are innacurate by their very nature, and they give you less practical knowledge on operating firearms than watching a few hours of History Channel would.

    Secondly, I'm going to walk you through a typical scenario of me playing Halo 2, which is probably the best FPS available right now1) I rotate the right control stick slightly, then hold down the right trigger. There is no violent intent towards my enemy, wether it's an AI-controlled bot or a human opponent I'm facing online- it's a simple challenge in the case of the former and a friendly competition in the case of the latter.(2) On screen, a series of polygons which emulate bullet trails appear. Those polygons collide with the polygons rendered to represent my enemy, and those same polygons then emulate my opponent dying.The important distinction here is that there is no gun, no bullets, and no enemy. There is a rotation of the control stick and a pull of the controller's trigger, resulting in a change of the onscreen display. Anyone who can't see the difference between this and the act of firing a gun at a human being is clearly unfit to be playing these games and, frankly, is an idiot. Which, once again, leads me to the next point I'm going to make.

    No one in their right mind would ever do the things that you blame on video games. A quick glance at such actions shows that there are far bigger, far more serious causes than violent media behind them. Now, you may wonder, "Why would someone kill a person in a video game if they think it's wrong to do in real life?" Well, the truth is, no one gets hurt when you kill a video game character. There are corporeal consequences to commiting acts of violence on real living things, but the difference is that real living things are just that, real. Well, that's my case against your Anti-Violent Games crusade. I support efforts to get parents more informed about the type of games their kids are playing, but it doesn't take some kind of genius to look at the back of the box of the game your kid wants to buy. If that doesn't tell you enough, there are many popular, respected websites that can give parents reliable information on the content of games.

    There is no evil conspiracy to turn America's youth into killers going on here- developers are people too. It should be noted that any federal interference with the video game industry would go down in my book as a violation of freedom of speech, which is something I dissaprove of under all circumstances. PS: On the topic of the 'Hot Coffee' mod for GTA: San Andreas, I get the feeling that you don't know what a mod is. Mods are code written by third parties, which adds to or modifies the game code, thereby adding or changing gameplay features. Also, you should keep in mind that this game is rated Mature(17+), and it's clearly displayed on the box that GTA contains sexual content, so any parent who walks in on their kid playing Hot Coffee shouldn't be at all shocked, in my humble opinion.
    Jack Thompson wrote:
    Of course they can train you to kill. The games suppress the inhibition to kill, which is why the military uses them for that purpose. Thanks for writing.

    I wrote:
    That's a half-truth. The games used by the military are not the same as the games available to the public, and they're far more akin to simulators than to entertainment systems. There is only one game that I know of which was used by the military and is now available to the public, Full Spectrum Warrior, and the civilian version was modified for faster gameplay and improved graphics. Things such as making the grenades go off quicker, for example, to give it more pick-up-and-play, entertainment value. Even then, anyone can tell you that killing in a game is not at all comparable to killing in reality, because killing in a game is, in fact, not actually killing.Flight simulators aren't used to suppress the inhibition to fly, they're used to give the pilot-in-training technical skills needed to operate a plane. The military uses video games in the same way.

    Jack Thompson wrote:
    http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07...s_6129301.html

    I wrote:
    Well, I'll admit defeat on Hot Coffee issue, but my point about violence still stands. I'd hardly call that article an effective rebuttal to my statements. And just for the sake of debate, let's hypothetically say your theory is true, and violent games do indeed reduce the inhibition to kill. Does that neccessarily mean that a gamer would have any more desire to kill? It would simply remove a roadblock for someone who already has violent urges and tendencies, caused by other, more serious factors, would it not? A rational, peaceable person who's inhibition to kill was reduced still would lack the violent urge to even contemplate murder.

    Jack Thompson wrote:
    In the UK an M game can't be sold to a minor, which is the only restriction I seek here. Smarten up. Your ignorance is showing.


    I wrote:
    Oh, really? Seems to me that you're attempting to draw negative attention to a major game company, spread false information that suggests that violent media creates killers, and continually changing the subject during this discussion. I'd like to bring your attention to the replies you allegedly sent to a few other gamers who have emailed you:
    "I am not interested in 'gamer's thoughts,' as that constitutes the latest oxymoron." "Screw off" These are people who I have never known to lie, especially on matters of politics. Perhaps you're being so curteous to me because you don't want Mommy and Daddy upset? Don't worry about that, Mr. Thompson, because I like to fight my own battles. You're spreading ignorance, taking advantage of others' misfortunes, attempting to destroy a well-established industry, and using technicalities to evade my arguments, which you seem to be incapable of refuting. Your two-faced, ambulance-chasing nature is showing. If you want to convince me otherwise, respond to my arguments instead of changing the subject. I'm not as naive as you think.

    Jack Thompson wrote:
    check into the nearest mental health facility

    I wrote:
    Mental institution? Whatever for? Did I hit a soft spot with that last email? That reply had a clear tone of finality to it, but you haven't gotten rid of me yet. Personally, I enjoy verbally destroying your "beliefs" and watching your petty attempts to shut out the truth. So, tell me... what exactly are your motives for professing these beliefs that you make no effort to defend? Really, I'm curious. I've never understood how people like you find it so easy, so satisfying, to uphold beliefs that aren't your own. That clearly aren't your own. If you want to insult me, find something witty next time. Being called insane isn't very deragatory, nor is it very clever. PS: I was going to include a joke pertaining to me allegedly having no inhibition to kill, but as you are a lawyer I opted against anything that could be considered a threat in even the most liberal terms.

    Jack Thompson wrote:
    Not interested.

    I wrote:
    Well, I've had fun antagonizing you. Also, I think I should tell you that I've posted this entire conversation on a public forum. You're unlikely to garner any support from my little corner of the web.

    Jack Thompson wrote:
    Post that, junior.

    I wrote:
    With pleasure. I know some people who'd get a real kick out of it.

    Jack Thompson wrote:
    I bet you do. While you gamers are all autostimulating yourselves with hopefulness that all of this is going nowhere, I'm in the current Reader's Digest and working with US Senators. You all ought to be concerned.

    I wrote:
    Reader's Digest? How ironic that they once had an article poking fun at frivolous lawyers. Funny ol' world, ain't it? Well, you never know what crazy things politicians will do, but if people critically examine your viewpoints as I have, then I doubt that you'll get far. A great deal of disdain towards you is growing in the gaming community, and there are a LOT of voting-age gamers in this country. Who are some of the senators you're currently talking to? I think I'd like to contact them as well.

    He hasn't responded since the last e-mail I sent him.

    END QUOTE

    Yours Sincerely,

    Dark Steno @ Maskawaih


    | manker FTW too! Awesome and superior being ^_^! |


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  2. Games   -   #2
    Smith's Avatar Since 1989.. BT Rep: +1
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    Wow that 14 year old has some really good linguistic skills. Lawyers are stupid, hes fighting against something he dosnt even know about.

  3. Games   -   #3
    Smith's Avatar Since 1989.. BT Rep: +1
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    shiut double post...please delete
    Last edited by Smith; 10-15-2005 at 01:50 PM.

  4. Games   -   #4
    maebach's Avatar Team FST Captain
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    wow, that thompsons guys an idiot

  5. Games   -   #5
    o_O That can't be real. No one's that stupid.

  6. Games   -   #6
    suprafreak6's Avatar Suprafreak6 is Back!
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    maybe he hasnt had time, or hes just a loser at heart

  7. Games   -   #7
    silent h3ro's Avatar Poster BT Rep: +9BT Rep +9
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    Is that lawyer that dumb?

  8. Games   -   #8
    GepperRankins's Avatar we want your oil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gam3Guy
    Is that lawyer that dumb?
    he tried to ban the sims 2 for being a peadophile simulator


    now people he thought were allies are disowning him


    GP EXCLUSIVE: National Institute on Media & Family Disavows Jack Thompson

    It appears that Jack Thompson's act is wearing thin lately, and not just among gamers.

    GamePolitics has obtained a hard copy of a blistering letter faxed to the Miami attorney on Thursday by Dr. David Walsh of the National Institute on Media and the Family.

    Walsh has been a leading critic of video game violence, and stood beside Senator Hillary Clinton during her Hot Coffee press conference in July as Mrs. Clinton called for an FTC investigation into Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.

    The two-page document sent by Walsh to Thompson reads as follows:

    "Dear Mr. Thompson,

    I founded the National Institute on Media and the Family ten years ago to engage in research and education about the effects of media on children's health and development. Our original premise that "media are powerful" has been validated scientifically and socially many times over. Our work has been cited by organizations around the world and our credibility has been well established.

    One of the areas of greatest concern is the issue of violent media's effect on children. I know that you share that common concern and I am well aware that you have frequently cited me and our organization as a source of scientific information. However, over the past few months, I and members of my board have a growing concern that your use of our name, without our permission, has had a negative influence as we try to educate the public on this important issue.

    Your commentary has included extreme hyperbole and your tactics have included personally attacking individuals for whom I have a great deal of respect. I believe that respect is essential in all our dealings, including respect for those with whom we disagree. Some of the people that you have publicly criticized are not only people of integrity, but are people who have worked to improve the lives of children.

    Even though we have no formal relationship your use of my name and your inclusion of my name in correspondence have created the impression that we condone these tactics. We do not. The result is that our position and reputation as a research based, non-partisan, solution-focused organization has been jeopardized. Consequently, I ask that you cease using the Institute's or my name in any way that would give the impression that we support your efforts. I also ask that you remove the link to our website that appears on your site.

    Sincerely,

    David Walsh, PH.D."

    EDITOR'S NOTE: cc's listed on the letter include Senators Hillary Clinton, Joe Lieberman, Sam Brownback and Rick Santorum; the governor and attorney general of Minnesota, Bill Gates, the CEO's of Target and Best Buy, Pat Vance of the ESRB, Doug Lowenstein of the ESA, as well as several other Minnesota political figures.

    GP tried to reach Jack Thompson (pictured at left) for comment. However neither a phone message nor an e-mail was returned by press time.

    UPDATE 10/14 8:30 A.M. Thompson acknowledges receiving the letter, and GP has received a pair of response letters from the controversial attorney to Dr. David Walsh. We will be publishing them.

  9. Games   -   #9
    GepperRankins's Avatar we want your oil!
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    check the latest.

    jack thompson promised to pay $10'000 to the charity of choice of the first developer to make his game - which consists of killing game developers and their families. a mod team, the fighting hellfish took up his offer and made a san andreas mod along these lines. thompson said it wasn't good enough and that his offer was a satirical joke. to make up for this poor taste "joke" the guys at www.penny-arcade.com decided to donate $10'000 of their money to charity in jacks name. now humiliated, he's trying to shut the site down as quick as possible
    Last edited by GepperRankins; 10-18-2005 at 03:40 PM.

  10. Games   -   #10
    Cheese's Avatar Poster
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    First VGCats, now Penny Arcade: Penny Arcade's rather expensive jab at Jack Thompson has caused the Florida attorney to go off the deep end. He has enlisted the Seattle Police Department in a desperate bid to get even with the creators of the webcomic. Yes, you read that right, folks, Jack Thompson is calling the cops on Gabe and Tycho for donating $10,000 to charity. Part of a letter Jack Thompson faxed to the Seattle chief of police Gil Kerlikowske reads as follows:

    "A Seattle business by the name of Penny Arcade... employs certain personnel who have decided to commence and orchestrate criminal harassment of me by various means... This company has done this because I dared to go on CBS's 60 Minutes in March and again in July to explain a wrongful death lawsuit I have brought on behalf of two police officers and a police dispatcher in Fayette, Alabama, who were shot in the head and killed by Devin Moore who obsessively trained on Grand Theft Auto: Vice City to kill them.

    As you may know, this incredibly violent Rockstar Games product is actually a 'cop-killing' murder simulator. There are a bunch of computer geeks out there who think that the video game industry has a constitutional right to paint a bullseye on your back and on your officers' backs... That is what this criminal harassment of me by Penny Arcade is all about. They're even selling an 'I Hate Jack Thompson' t-shirt, but that is just the tip of the iceberg. These idiots have been so careless as to post on their www.pennyarcade.com web site what they are doing regarding the harassment of me.

    I look forward to working with your fine Police Department to shut this little extortion factory down and/or arrest some of its employees."

    Given the fact that Jack Thompson submitted an erroneous URL to the chief of police, it might take some time before detectives will be able put the crackdown on this so-called "crime." That is, if they ever stop laughing at Jack Thompson's ridiculous proposal. Which I doubt they will.

    More news on this as it develops.

    http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=5680
    Last edited by Cheese; 10-18-2005 at 03:59 PM.

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