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Thread: Give Me The Freedom To Know That You Know That

  1. #1
    If everyone in this country had to have their identity verified before they did anything involving money transfers, etc, Terrorists would no longer have the freedom of movement they now have, but non terrorist, honest Americans would still retain that freedom.

    At least that seems to be the case.

    How difficult would it be to impersonate a microchip's signature?

    How available is the technology?

    If every place you visited would have a device that read the chip, how hard would it be to crack the encryption code for duplication?

    $500.00 programs that supposedly must be registered to get full benifit, are easily cracked into by 12 year olds.

    Is it that easy with the microchip?

    Would a terrorist have that kind of technology?

    Veteranarians currently use the microchip for pets.

    Does anyone on here have more info on this subject?

    Thanks

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #2
    sArA's Avatar Ex-Moderatererer
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    The use of biometrics is the most likely form of universal identifiers. This is being worked out now, (I am actually scenario building for a seminar that will include this issue) Biometrics are the only form on ID that is practically impossible to forge. However there are issues at the moment with accuracy and the protection of that information once it is in the data bases of governments. The proposal in the US is that the DMV will administer it on the renewal and provision of driving licences. Needless to say...this is not too popular.

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #3
    Originally posted by sara5564@22 April 2003 - 16:20
    The use of biometrics is the most likely form of universal identifiers. This is being worked out now, (I am actually scenario building for a seminar that will include this issue) Biometrics are the only form on ID that is practically impossible to forge. However there are issues at the moment with accuracy and the protection of that information once it is in the data bases of governments. The proposal in the US is that the DMV will administer it on the renewal and provision of driving licences. Needless to say...this is not too popular.
    Are you talking about a DNA print on record?

    What would they use for the sample?

    Hair, skin, blood?

    My only concern there, is that if you want to frame someone else for a crime, all you need is a strand or two of hair and a time when they will be alone.

    Or are we talking retinal scan?

    I've heard that they can be faked but its not easy.

    Finger prints are easy enough using a thin film impressed with someone elses prints.

    I would love for there to be a foolproof way to verify identity.

    If biometrics is not any of the things above, what does it involve?

    It may be giving away a certain level of freedom, but the freedom of knowing that we could not be wrongly condemned of a crime we didn't commit would be worth it.
    And if we didn't need to worry about terrorists because the technology to detect them was foolproof, that would increase my feeling of freedom. And if kidnappers could be easily tracked down due to that technology, so that I felt safe letting my son go to the store with a friend by themselves, or if kids could again be kids without having to worry that some adult would think they were 'up to no good'...Well...The less stress on kids worrying what someone may think of their actions, the less the desire to rebel in the first place.

    I want some form of awareness. Part of the reason people get paranoid is because of what they don't know.
    Governments are no different because in the end, they are only people after all.

    If they know what we're up to, they can't be paranoid.
    If they're not paranoid, we get more freedom.

    I know that's gonna get some negative feedback.

    Peace

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #4
    clocker's Avatar Shovel Ready
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    Originally posted by ne1GotZardoz@22 April 2003 - 17:17


    I want some form of awareness. Part of the reason people get paranoid is because of what they don't know.
    Governments are no different because in the end, they are only people after all.

    If they know what we're up to, they can't be paranoid.
    If they're not paranoid, we get more freedom.

    I know that's gonna get some negative feedback.

    Peace
    What a charming belief in the infallibility of technology and government you have. Willing to sacrifice quite a bit of your personal freedom at it's altar from the sound of it.

    I barely trust a ball point pen to work with the level of reliability you so easily grant completely new concepts.
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #5
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    I think basically it`s finger imaging, like finger-prints..........mmmmmm........certainly something to think about. I thought that was just for criminals

    cheers,
    Bass.

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #6
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    Originally posted by ne1GotZardoz@18 April 2003 - 18:12
    Veteranarians currently use the microchip for pets.
    Pets dude, not people. This would be the single greatest invasion of privacy on the planet.
    Proud member of MDS

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #7
    MagicNakor's Avatar On the Peripheral
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    Originally posted by clocker@23 April 2003 - 01:10
    I barely trust a ball point pen to work with the level of reliability you so easily grant completely new concepts.
    I haven't had a ball-point pen work past three days for me. But a good ol' pencil won't let you down.

    things are quiet until hitler decides he'd like to invade russia
    so, he does
    the russians are like "OMG WTF D00DZ, STOP TKING"
    and the germans are still like "omg ph34r n00bz"
    the russians fall back, all the way to moscow
    and then they all begin h4xing, which brings on the russian winter
    the germans are like "wtf, h4x"
    -- WW2 for the l33t

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #8
    Originally posted by clocker+22 April 2003 - 19:10--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 22 April 2003 - 19:10)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ne1GotZardoz@22 April 2003 - 17:17


    I want some form of awareness. Part of the reason people get paranoid is because of what they don&#39;t know.
    Governments are no different because in the end, they are only people after all.

    If they know what we&#39;re up to, they can&#39;t be paranoid.
    If they&#39;re not paranoid, we get more freedom.

    I know that&#39;s gonna get some negative feedback.

    Peace
    What a charming belief in the infallibility of technology and government you have. Willing to sacrifice quite a bit of your personal freedom at it&#39;s altar from the sound of it.

    I barely trust a ball point pen to work with the level of reliability you so easily grant completely new concepts. [/b][/quote]
    By any chance did you notice the line in that post that read:

    I would love for there to be a foolproof way to verify identity.
    ?

    I never said I believed it COULD be done.
    Only that I wish it could.

    Whats one of the biggest mistakes a parent can make?

    Accusing their kid of something the kid didn&#39;t do.
    How does the kid then feel?
    Angry and distrustful.


    How much more confident would we be in our daily activities if there was no question who was guilty and who was innocent?

    People make a big deal about how our privacy is being invaded.
    If that were really true though, there would be no false accusations.

    People get upset that our government might know what they are up to, then they say things like, "God is watching over you", or, "You&#39;ll answer to God for your sins".

    The truth is, people don&#39;t like Government snooping because the Government "Doesn&#39;t" know everything.

    What I&#39;m saying is that I don&#39;t want the Government to only know half truths.
    People spend life in prison or get lethal injections because of half truths.

    Since they are going to be involved anyway, (thats what we pay them for), why don&#39;t we give them the power to do the job they are paid to do.

    And if the technology was that reliable, I&#39;d definately accept it.

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #9
    Originally posted by ne1GotZardoz@23 April 2003 - 08:45
    I never said I believed it COULD be done.
    Only that I wish it could.
    Whats one of the biggest mistakes a parent can make?
    Accusing their kid of something the kid didn&#39;t do.
    How does the kid then feel?
    Angry and distrustful.
    How much more confident would we be in our daily activities if there was no question who was guilty and who was innocent?
    People make a big deal about how our privacy is being invaded.
    If that were really true though, there would be no false accusations.
    People get upset that our government might know what they are up to, then they say things like, "God is watching over you", or, "You&#39;ll answer to God for your sins".
    The truth is, people don&#39;t like Government snooping because the Government "Doesn&#39;t" know everything.
    What I&#39;m saying is that I don&#39;t want the Government to only know half truths.
    People spend life in prison or get lethal injections because of half truths.

    Since they are going to be involved anyway, (thats what we pay them for), why don&#39;t we give them the power to do the job they are paid to do.

    And if the technology was that reliable, I&#39;d definately accept it.
    ne1, your thinking blows my mind. on a regular basis.

    regarding false accusation of a child, and the analogy to crime, the relationship we have with our father and our attorney general doesn&#39;t have a whole lot in common, mostly because the constitutional right to equality and privacy only applies to the man, not the old man.

    You ask how much more confident we&#39;d feel if state pronouncements of guilt and innocence were infallible. honestly, the thought of being falsely accused of a crime doesn&#39;t concern me, and it doesn&#39;t affect how i live my life -- on a conscious level, anyway...

    the argument is: government doesn&#39; know everything, so we are at risk of being falsely accused. This risk could be eliminated, hypothetically speaking, if the government had an technology that perfectly identified everyone. As long as we sacrifice our "bio-anonymity" by submitting dna samples (voluntarily or otherwise, you don&#39;t specirfy), then this risk of false accusation would disappear. In other words, the only problem with the justice system is technological, and as soon as humans can develop the proper technology, we&#39;ll all be truly free.

    assume such a technology is possible. there&#39;s still lots of ways to falsely accuse someone. All the dna does is open another avenue of investigation, its HUMANS that conduct the police work, and humans who prosecute the offenders -- just like in law and order&#33; you haven&#39;t eliminated human judgement. I&#39;m not an Ani deFranco fan, but her lyrics spring to mind: "a tool can be a weapon if you hold it the right way."

    Some say we should have a camera on every street corner, it would be just like having a cop on every corner. The response from privacy-minded people like me is, "you&#39;re right, it would be like having a cop on every corner, and we entered world war 2 and cold war to prevent such a nightmare&#33;"

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #10
    Originally posted by myfiles3000+23 April 2003 - 04:09--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (myfiles3000 @ 23 April 2003 - 04:09)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ne1GotZardoz@23 April 2003 - 08:45
    I never said I believed it COULD be done.
    Only that I wish it could.
    Whats one of the biggest mistakes a parent can make?
    Accusing their kid of something the kid didn&#39;t do.
    How does the kid then feel?
    Angry and distrustful.
    How much more confident would we be in our daily activities if there was no question who was guilty and who was innocent?
    People make a big deal about how our privacy is being invaded.
    If that were really true though, there would be no false accusations.
    People get upset that our government might know what they are up to, then they say things like, "God is watching over you", or, "You&#39;ll answer to God for your sins".
    The truth is, people don&#39;t like Government snooping because the Government "Doesn&#39;t" know everything.
    What I&#39;m saying is that I don&#39;t want the Government to only know half truths.
    People spend life in prison or get lethal injections because of half truths.

    Since they are going to be involved anyway, (thats what we pay them for), why don&#39;t we give them the power to do the job they are paid to do.

    And if the technology was that reliable, I&#39;d definately accept it.
    ne1, your thinking blows my mind. on a regular basis.

    regarding false accusation of a child, and the analogy to crime, the relationship we have with our father and our attorney general doesn&#39;t have a whole lot in common, mostly because the constitutional right to equality and privacy only applies to the man, not the old man.

    You ask how much more confident we&#39;d feel if state pronouncements of guilt and innocence were infallible. honestly, the thought of being falsely accused of a crime doesn&#39;t concern me, and it doesn&#39;t affect how i live my life -- on a conscious level, anyway...

    the argument is: government doesn&#39; know everything, so we are at risk of being falsely accused. This risk could be eliminated, hypothetically speaking, if the government had an technology that perfectly identified everyone. As long as we sacrifice our "bio-anonymity" by submitting dna samples (voluntarily or otherwise, you don&#39;t specirfy), then this risk of false accusation would disappear. In other words, the only problem with the justice system is technological, and as soon as humans can develop the proper technology, we&#39;ll all be truly free.

    assume such a technology is possible. there&#39;s still lots of ways to falsely accuse someone. All the dna does is open another avenue of investigation, its HUMANS that conduct the police work, and humans who prosecute the offenders -- just like in law and order&#33; you haven&#39;t eliminated human judgement. I&#39;m not an Ani deFranco fan, but her lyrics spring to mind: "a tool can be a weapon if you hold it the right way."

    Some say we should have a camera on every street corner, it would be just like having a cop on every corner. The response from privacy-minded people like me is, "you&#39;re right, it would be like having a cop on every corner, and we entered world war 2 and cold war to prevent such a nightmare&#33;" [/b][/quote]
    From your post, it looks like you agree with me.

    You wish the government were infalable to.

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