More Powerful Than The Government?

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by TIDE-HSV@21 April 2003 - 22:18
Well, having been called away by the grubby necessity of living-making, I return to a virtual starburst of erudition. Who'd ever have anticipated seeing "tautology" being discussed by common pirates? First, j2, the term is yours to use freely. All you have to do is give me proper perpetual credit. Now, for "High-Tech Luddites." Let's not forget that the original, and all, Luddites are relatively high-tech. The original Luddites' steel pitchforks and scythes were extremely high-tech, compared to stone tools. Every good Luddite is only against the next step of progress - the one that takes his job.

Sir,

Unless I am much mistaken the original Luddites objected to the industrial revolution, in particular within the textile industry. They saw the new machines as a threat to their jobs. Often they would destroy the machines in an attempt to save these jobs.

As I recall they would throw their wooden clogs into them, in an attempt to sabotage or destroy the looms.

The word has obviously taken new meaning, signifying anyone who is suspicious or afraid of change - new technology. However I believe this is the proper etymology.

I have the pleasure to remain, as ever, your humble and obedient servant.

[TIDE-HSV]

Sigh. Where to start? I took liberty with the Luddite story, but not complete liberty. Basically, I was describing the popular paintings from the early nineteenth century depicting them advancing on factories with scythes and pitchforks. Probably artists from London. In fact, they were the most highly skilled workers in the factories. It started with the cloth-finishers in Nottingham, and spread throughout the industrial belt of England, beginning in in 1811 and continuing on into 1812. They took over the factories at night, destroyed the steam looms and even murdered one mill owner, for which act fourteen hanged. The "sabot" story is a total canard, pardon my French. French workers did wear wooden clogs called "sabot," but they didn't toss them into machinery. (The actual Luddites were at least one generation away from wooden shoes). The metal strap which holds a railroad track to the tie is also called a "sabot." Striking French RR workers would clip the sabot, causing derailments. The term "sabotage" didn't enter the English language (on either side of the pond) until the first decade of the 20th century, or about 100 years after the era of the Luddites. Personally, I still prefer the pics of the Luddites advancing on factories, scythes drawn - now that's romantic.

[clocker]

Originally posted by TIDE-HSV@21 April 2003 - 17:30
Personally, I still prefer the pics of the Luddites advancing on factories, scythes drawn - now that's romantic.

You must have been a HUGE hit with the ladies.

[Jibbler]

Let's approach this from a different perspective. 15 years ago, the death of cassettes was predicted due to the rise of compact discs. Basically, one format led to another. This is a simple business model, for which the record companies have already bought into. The next logical step is another new format, and filesharing is going to change the way we purchase music.

Consider for a minute, the money that would be saved by these production companies if they no longer had to produce CDs or cassettes. The operating costs of their business would drop significantly. No factories to produce the discs, no workers to employ, no utilities to maintain the buildings where the CDs are produced, etc. I think you get the idea. Its not only financially productive because of the drop in operating costs, but it will increase profit thru faster distribution.

I guess all of this is out of my hands. Too bad the RIAA is wasting resources fighting the end user, the very same person who created the industry which they represent.

[TIDE-HSV]

Jib, your thinking is on track, and you're not alone. Quite a few commentators, John Dvorak of PCMag comes to mind, have made precisely the same observation. Of course, the distribution pipeline also has its huge vested interests. It comes to mind that the largest manufacturer of CDs in the states is located here, from where I write. Then, there's Blockbuster, etc.

[clocker]

Originally posted by Jibbler@21 April 2003 - 17:50


I guess all of this is out of my hands. Too bad the RIAA is wasting resources fighting the end user, the very same person who created the industry which they represent.

At last! After 50 posts in two different threads, Jib ole buddy, we agree on something!

But, as you say,"Let's approach this from a different perspective".

The end use never "created" the industry, they simply provided revenue to ensure it's continued existence.
THAT's what has the RIAA/MPAA so hot and bothered- we, the end-user, figured out a way to cut them completely out of the loop. And it shouldn't take too much imagination to take the next step ( in fact some bands already have) which is for the artists to bypass the industry also. The same technology which has made it possible for us to steal the music has made it possible for almost anyone to produce it also. You can now go to Best Buy and get far better equipment than the Beatles ever had access to. Hell, your basic karioke box is more sophisticated than Sun Studios was.
Now you can see why the RIAA is fighting back so viciously and, as j2 says, so "scattershot". They don't care about ethics, nor the law, per se, they're fighting for their continued existence.
We may be sitting around in ten years time and the names of record companies will be a catagory in Trivial Pursuit.

[Blue_Seraphim]

What I want to know is: How many ppl would spend there money on these media files if you couldn't Download them????

In most cases I probably would not.

Any thoughts?

[j2k4]

Originally posted by TIDE-HSV@21 April 2003 - 16:18
Well, having been called away by the grubby necessity of living-making, I return to a virtual starburst of erudition. Who'd ever have anticipated seeing "tautology" being discussed by common pirates? First, j2, the term is yours to use freely. All you have to do is give me proper perpetual credit. Now, for "High-Tech Luddites." Let's not forget that the original, and all, Luddites are relatively high-tech. The original Luddites' steel pitchforks and scythes were extremely high-tech, compared to stone tools. Every good Luddite is only against the next step of progress - the one that takes his job.

I would gladly give credit-even had it planned, but, alas, I no longer have space to spare as I've changed my profile again.
I'll devote thought to a more totally inclusive description when possible.
I also have to confess my prior knowledge of the Luddites was sadly in arrears, but thanks to all here that is no longer true.

There has been much light shed upon the subject here at hand; the only base not covered is the speculative one. I have my opinion, but believe it to be intuitive only.
TIDE-HSV: Would you care to make a non-binding forecast? I need to baseline my own thoughts.

BTW-believe it or not, tautology was the word that popped into my head when my wife asked why I DL'd so many studio/live, original/cover, different venue versions of the same songs-whem JmiF jumped up with it I flashed right to that moment (that this happened is of a significance I won't bore by explaining).

[Jibbler]

I would pay, no question, but only for unlimited downloads, a good graphic interface, and the ability to download full albums. Anything short of this, and they will collapse the p2p issue. Damn it clocker, I was hoping to go another 50 posts before we agree again. B) B)

[clocker]

Originally posted by Jibbler@21 April 2003 - 22:18
Damn it clocker, I was hoping to go another 50 posts before we agree again. B) B)

I'm sure that can be arranged.