boycotts of Danish goods in middle East!

[j2k4]

I see your logic, JJ.

Tell me:

Do you think Theo Van Gogh was a victim of his own freedom of speech or someone else's?

Therein lies the problem. The twonk who killed him had nothing to say.

Given that non-oral speech counts, I'll include the note that was speared to his torso as he lay dying.

As to the physical violence, which (absurdly), by JJ's example could arguably be considered legal, how should we view the actions of a mute with no arms who kicks someone to death over a perceived slight?

To deny him/her this...expression would seem to be discriminatory, no?

[Biggles]

I was being harsh without apology as instructed The twonk in question could have talked all night and still said nothing as far as I am concerned. His position was indefensible.

Apart from the occasional enraged armless mute who has not mastered typing with his toes I am not sure "free speech" really extends to beating someone to death.

Whatever happened to "sticks and stones"

Of course untruths about an individual can harm them in that it could ruin them professionally. However, the slander and libel laws are there to ensure that free speech is also accurate speech. Are the cartoons slanderous - there might be good reason for some to view Islam as a vehicle for carrying bombs. When politics and religion intertwine then all is fair game and religion cannot hide behind the skirts of sanctity.

I would agree with JP in that, with ever tightening laws, free speech appears to be an increasingly endangered commodity.

However, a democracy must have the means with which to question. If areas are allowed to be fenced off then there will be opportunities for those in power to shield their actions from criticism. This is a slippy slope that many have skated down before.

[j2k4]

I was being harsh without apology as instructed The twonk in question could have talked all night and still said nothing as far as I am concerned. His position was indefensible.

Apart from the occasional enraged armless mute who has not mastered typing with his toes I am not sure "free speech" really extends to beating someone to death.

Whatever happened to "sticks and stones"

Of course untruths about an individual can harm them in that it could ruin them professionally. However, the slander and libel laws are there to ensure that free speech is also accurate speech. Are the cartoons slanderous - there might be good reason for some to view Islam as a vehicle for carrying bombs. When politics and religion intertwine then all is fair game and religion cannot hide behind the skirts of sanctity.

I would agree with JP in that, with ever tightening laws, free speech appears to be an increasingly endangered commodity.

However, a democracy must have the means with which to question. If areas are allowed to be fenced off then there will be opportunities for those in power to shield their actions from criticism. This is a slippy slope that many have skated down before.

I tumbled to your H4R5Hness, but couldn't pay heed and also use my mute/armless thingie.

I agree with you and JP; I am occasionally bothered, however, by the sentiment expressed by those intransigents who decry incidents such as when Whoopi Goldberg's political commentaries cost her beaucoup endorsment contracts...as if corporate entities are, by virtue of their non-personhood, "speechless".

[Biggles]

I am not sure if Whoopi really needs the dough.

Advertising budgets are used to the entities best interest. If a burger joint discovers their promotion is fronted by a vegetarian then they might want to reconsider...or start selling vege-burgers

Several companies reconsidered Kate Moss apres her coke incident. Hindsight suggests they made a mistake as she appears to have both public sympathy and has bounced back but that was the call they made at the time.

If the owners of the entity are unhappy with a promotion then they are free to end it - it is their money after all. One difficulty is that the CEO is rarely the owner, the shareholders are and the CEO should not grind his political axe with their money.

[j2k4]

If the owners of the entity are unhappy with a promotion then they are free to end it - it is their money after all. One difficulty is that the CEO is rarely the owner, the shareholders are and the CEO should not grind his political axe with their money.

True, but as they are most directly responsible for the corporate image, he/she is bound to act in what they see as the shareholders' best monetary interest, and to do it quickly.

I can't remember the circumstances, but I have a dim recollection of a CEO with his finger in the wind, trying to judge public reaction while his company withered.

I would think the default would be removal of the celeb/what-have-you in question, as a negative image will lose you more consumers more quickly than any transitory reaction over whether said person should or should not have been kept...there are several celebrities to choose from, after all.

[Barbarossa]

From the ridiculous to the, umm, ridiculous.

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Not content with pelting European embassies with petrol bombs to protest against cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad, Iranians have decided to rename the "Danish pastries" relished by this nation of cake lovers.

From now on, the sweet, flaky pastries which dominate the shelves in
Iran's cake shops will be known as "Roses of the Prophet Mohammad," the official IRNA news agency reported as pressure on Denmark over the cartoons took on a new dimension.

"No one is allowed to make fun of our beloved and respected Prophet," Hassan Nasserzadeh, a cake-shop owner in central Tehran, told Reuters.

The pastries are baked every day and are not imported or subject to any boycott of Danish goods imposed over the cartoons.

The Iranian move had echoes of the verbal food fight set off by restaurants in the U.S. House of Representatives which renamed "French fries" and "French toast" as "Freedom fries" and "Freedom toast" after France refused to back the U.S.-led invasion of
Iraq in 2003.

Points:

1. Danish Pastries = "Roses of the Prophet Mohammad,"

2. "No one is allowed to make fun of our beloved and respected Prophet,"

[Afronaut]

"No one is allowed to make fun of our beloved and respected Prophet,"

[jetje]

you don't have freedom of speech over there! As i said it's infinite, soon as someone forbids you to speak about subject (how logical that may seem) it's not freedom of speech anymore This is exactly why we cannot tolerate that some Ayathollahs tells us (western world) what we are allowed to say. It's the begin of the end. There is no such thing as partial freedom of speech.

I see your logic, JJ.

Tell me:

Do you think Theo Van Gogh was a victim of his own freedom of speech or someone else's?

What do you think yourself j2k4??

The power of words lies in the fact that as long as your able to use words, you won't be needing any fysicall violence. This is one of the reasons that it's so important to have freedom of speech. Dictatorships of any kind only excist on not having freedom of speech. Wars/fights/conflicts starts when dialogue stops.

[j2k4]

I see your logic, JJ.

Tell me:

Do you think Theo Van Gogh was a victim of his own freedom of speech or someone else's?

What do you think yourself j2k4??

The power of words lies in the fact that as long as your able to use words, you won't be needing any fysicall violence. This is one of the reasons that it's so important to have freedom of speech. Dictatorships of any kind only excist on not having freedom of speech. Wars/fights/conflicts starts when dialogue stops.

I'd say the unlawful reaction to Theo's correct exercise of his speech rights cost him his life.

Your answer, please?

Was Theo victimized by conflict?

Remember, there was a note...

[Biggles]

From the ridiculous to the, umm, ridiculous.

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Not content with pelting European embassies with petrol bombs to protest against cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad, Iranians have decided to rename the "Danish pastries" relished by this nation of cake lovers.

From now on, the sweet, flaky pastries which dominate the shelves in
Iran's cake shops will be known as "Roses of the Prophet Mohammad," the official IRNA news agency reported as pressure on Denmark over the cartoons took on a new dimension.

"No one is allowed to make fun of our beloved and respected Prophet," Hassan Nasserzadeh, a cake-shop owner in central Tehran, told Reuters.

The pastries are baked every day and are not imported or subject to any boycott of Danish goods imposed over the cartoons.

The Iranian move had echoes of the verbal food fight set off by restaurants in the U.S. House of Representatives which renamed "French fries" and "French toast" as "Freedom fries" and "Freedom toast" after France refused to back the U.S.-led invasion of
Iraq in 2003.

Points:

1. Danish Pastries = "Roses of the Prophet Mohammad,"

2. "No one is allowed to make fun of our beloved and respected Prophet,"

Changing the name of food is just silly