boycotts of Danish goods in middle East!

[JPaul]

Tell that to this woman

All Christians are like that, why single her out

No, no they aren't

[Biggles]

has anyone here studied islam (outside of media)?

Which version? Although the media is not blameless I don't think it was a figment of my imagination that it was religion that motivated the WTC attack, the Madrid bombings and the London subway bombings - not to mention Bali, Beslan and Moscow, the beheading of Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia and numerous other attacks.

There seems to be a branch, at least, of Islam that is big on death. That is not to say that other religions have not had their death is healthy for you moments.

I don't like having Jehovah's Witnesses knocking at my door, mad ladies in the street trying to get me to say Guranga (sp?) or Mullahs saying death to those who disagree with us. It all seems a little too forced. It is as if it won't be true unless everybody thinks like they do.

I am sure there are Islamic philosphers with insights into the human condition who have much to offer. Those that merely want to stamp converted on all they see offer nothing that we haven't already got.

A line from a Gore Vidal book that I liked very much was a young Zarathustrian priest telling Buddha that he represented the one true God. Buddha replied laughing "but my dear boy we have one of those too ... come to think of it, several actually.

[maebach]

Tell that to this woman

.

she was on trading spouses last week

[Snee]

has anyone here studied islam (outside of media)?

Not from the inside, zed. But I have read about it, religion is a subject in our schools, see. I also had a bunch of muslim classmates, for three years. In fact, in that class they outnumbered the christians, and us others. They taught me some arabic, and the muslim declaration of faith, for fun, like. I s'pose I've repeated it enough times in public, for me to be a muslim, if they thought I'd been sincere.

From what I remember it's a benign religion in theory. Teaches peace, love, and maybe tolerance. That Mohammed chap seemed an ok dude.


Something that has always stuck with me tho', was when we were doing some presentation of Islam, in class, and I started telling people about a possible historical explanation as to why Islam frowns upon alcohol.

One theory is that he, when in the army en route to Mekka, had a problem with people in the army getting drunk, and that the prohibition of alcohol was implemented because of this.

This is just a theory, and I wasn't making any value-statements of any kind about its validity, it was just an aside.

Only one girl, who was normally rather nice to me (I think she kinda' liked me) and otherwise just a normal teenager who'd never struck me as particularily religious, started talking, raising her voice, proclaiming loudly that it was the word of God, AND NOTHING ELSE. 'twas as if the very thought that there might be a more down to earth explanation for it was an insult, or even a threat, to her personally.

And I've seen the same thing happen one more time, in class at uni, when discussing the "divine command"-theory. As the lecturer noted that the theory becomes invalid if there's no God, and that the theory might still be invalid if there is a God, if what's right and what's wrong is just something He or She has ordained, rather than universal truths.

When he told us this, without saying whether he thought there was a God, this muslim bloke in class had to explain the nature of God to him, twice, very loudly. It was if just the possiblity of our lecturer not believing in God, or the contemplation of the reasons behind God's words, was an insult, or again even a threat.

I don't reckon this is Mohammed's fault, or a flaw in the framework for the religion in itself, 'cos he wanted you to think. I just think that it has been abused from the inside in some parts of the world, to create a tradition of unquestioning belief, maybe even fanaticism, by people less pure of intention.

[JPaul]

has anyone here studied islam (outside of media)?

Which version? Although the media is not blameless I don't think it was a figment of my imagination that it was religion that motivated the WTC attack, the Madrid bombings and the London subway bombings - not to mention Bali, Beslan and Moscow, the beheading of Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia and numerous other attacks.

There seems to be a branch, at least, of Islam that is big on death. That is not to say that other religions have not had their death is healthy for you moments.

I don't like having Jehovah's Witnesses knocking at my door, mad ladies in the street trying to get me to say Guranga (sp?) or Mullahs saying death to those who disagree with us. It all seems a little too forced. It is as if it won't be true unless everybody thinks like they do.

I am sure there are Islamic philosphers with insights into the human condition who have much to offer. Those that merely want to stamp converted on all they see offer nothing that we haven't already got.

A line from a Gore Vidal book that I liked very much was a young Zarathustrian priest telling Buddha that he represented the one true God. Buddha replied laughing "but my dear boy we have one of those too ... come to think of it, several actually.

Hoi, Witch. Don't dis the Zarathustrians, I like them .... and the Buddahians as it happens.

[BawA]

hi guys
i just want to bring this up for some of you whom belive in freedom of speech in europ.
why your freedom of speech stops at jews Holocaust by nazi's?
just today i saw that david Irving was sentence to 3 years for doubting in the holocaus, what kinda of freedom is that.
in Europ they can hert 1.8 billion muslims feelings but they cant doubt in jews holocaust, isnt that a racism?
italian spoke man says "Muslims" r welcome but they cant force thier culture on us(but they can do anything to us becuz we r migrated and minority population over there).
an italian minister wore a T-shirt with thoes cartoons on it on tv and asked Pope to declare a campaign against muslims(he got firied from goverment by PM).
just an update on the cartoon creator, SOAB is undergrounded(i guess Salman rushdie got a partner).

[Barbarossa]

hi guys
i just want to bring this up for some of you whom belive in freedom of speech in europ.
why your freedom of speech stops at jews Holocaust by nazi's?
just today i saw that david Irving was sentence to 3 years for doubting in the holocaus, what kinda of freedom is that.

I can't deny that you have a point there.

[Busyman]

hi guys
i just want to bring this up for some of you whom belive in freedom of speech in europ.
why your freedom of speech stops at jews Holocaust by nazi's?
just today i saw that david Irving was sentence to 3 years for doubting in the holocaus, what kinda of freedom is that.
in Europ they can hert 1.8 billion muslims feelings but they cant doubt in jews holocaust, isnt that a racism?

I'll tell you why....'cause the Austrians got together and agreed that a person can't deny or minimalize the 'caust.

So freedom of speech does stop at the Holocaust.

Fucked up, huh?

Unlike the sitcha ayshun in Denmark, they actually have a law....but you are familiar with that since it's probably a law in your country to quell freedom of speech regarding things like cartoons.

[Snee]

hi guys
i just want to bring this up for some of you whom belive in freedom of speech in europ.
why your freedom of speech stops at jews Holocaust by nazi's?
just today i saw that david Irving was sentence to 3 years for doubting in the holocaus, what kinda of freedom is that.
in Europ they can hert 1.8 billion muslims feelings but they cant doubt in jews holocaust, isnt that a racism?
italian spoke man says "Muslims" r welcome but they cant force thier culture on us(but they can do anything to us becuz we r migrated and minority population over there).
an italian minister wore a T-shirt with thoes cartoons on it on tv and asked Pope to declare a campaign against muslims(he got firied from goverment by PM).
just an update on the cartoon creator, SOAB is undergrounded(i guess Salman rushdie got a partner).

Europe isn't a country, it's a bunch of countries, all with their own different laws, you can't talk about europeans as if they are all the same.

Or do you reckon you, as a muslim, should be held accountable for what the Talibans have done in the name of Islam, or maybe that you, as an arab, should be held accountable for what other arabs have done, or maybe that you, as someone living in the middle east, should get a bad rep 'cos of how Iraq treated people, under Saddam?

If I have to hazard a guess, I'd say you know fuck all about how people who are specifically muslims are treated in our country. (They have the same rights as the rest of us, btw, by law).



As for the holocaust bloke, I dunno' if he'd end up in prison just for talking that way here. But I know it's not allowed to make statements intentionally intended to hurt a minority, be they jews, arabs or who tf cares.

Personally, I reckon someone who's daft enough to deny an event like that might need to be locked up for his own safety.


I think you need to realise that the world doesn't match your preconceptions, and, to tie in with what you started off saying, that no matter what the chaps who run the show right now where you live say, the rest of the world isn't out to get you.

[BawA]

Europe isn't a country, it's a bunch of countries, all with their own different laws, you can't talk about Europeans as if they are all the same.

Basically they follow not so different constitution, thats why its called "union" .

do you reckon you, as a Muslim, should be held accountable for what the Taliban’s have done in the name of Islam

what the feck Taliban did, one or two clips that u saw of killing people was not more then a sentence by "SHARIAA", its done in all Islamic country even in Saudi Arabia. Its matter of East and West Thingy, the way works here and over there. one of clips that u may saw was shooting a women well that’s a couple cheating issue, wife and husband cheatings issues are a normal issue for you cuz its used regularly and no law prohibits it but in Shariaa we have strict rule over that.

Personally, I reckon someone who's daft enough to deny an event like that might need to be locked up for his own safety.

Did u see the holocaust by ur self?, how can u be so sure? As you said that media doesn’t represent the actual events so don’t trust what Hollywood’s says.
personally I think its all BS, its all to drive out the Jews Out, and to show that they don’t hate them they brought up these craps, I say if u apartheid them why don’t keep them there instead of droving them out to Middle East(what Uk did).

But I know it's not allowed to make statements intentionally intended to hurt a minority, be they Jews, Arabs or who tf cares.

How the feck doubting in something is hurting others feeling, u name that "hurting the feelings" but those cartoons which is direct arrow pointed at us is freedom of speech?

I'll tell you why....'cause the Austrians got together and agreed that a person can't deny or minimalize the 'caust.

So freedom of speech does stop at the Holocaust.

Fucked up, huh?

its similar to US Creating Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), when they nuked Hiroshima in fear of being attacked the same way and being blamed they made NPT so they can drive away those blames and be on the peace track, now European made the holocaust rule to prevent the blames of them self’s and draw a good picture of them self by ignoring that they had hands in thoes holocaust's(which isnt existed in my opinion).