Wake up: the American Dream is over

[Busyman™]

Yet it exists and has existed for some time.

As do all the ill-effects arising from that unfortunate fact.

Fact.

Mmk. That would mean that let say uhh..$5.90 an hour is too high and some fuckschmuck businessman will have to lay off workers.

Or at least that's the excuse he'll have.

[sarcasm]The rate hike will throw off the economy.[/sarcasm] Forget the fact that said fuckschmuck businessman hasn't had to deal with doling such high pay for 10 years.

If it fucks with the stock market, so be it. Worse has fucked with the stock market like the unnecessary sacrificing of American soldiers.

[j2k4]

As do all the ill-effects arising from that unfortunate fact.

Fact.

And yet the evidence from the UK and from the Link that vidcc supplied, appear to be at odds with your interpretation of Economic Theory.

You yourself have stated that you don't pay Minimum Wage, and therefore we can make an assumption that you may be a good employer.

However for every good employer there are bad employers... when people need Jobs they must take what they can get. These bad employers are the ones that are making the Gap between Rich and Poor wider and pressurising the Good Employers to pay as little as possible so they can still compete.

They are therefore the ones that are slowly destroying the American Dream that you cherish.

The way around this is to increase the minimum wage, in line with inflation. That way, the competition faces exactly the same rise in costs as yourself. More money is also being spent in the economy, instead of being hoarded by a small number of people, increasing the actual trade.

People can afford small treats, such as going to a Restaurant occasionally or buying little luxuries now and again.

It increases the "Feel Good" factor, increases consumer confidence, so they are more willing to risk borrowing and splashing out.

Your economy and ours are different, as is your version of economic theory.

In addition to all that I've previously mentioned, there is (I stress, yet again) the inflationary aspect, which, in order to avoid, would require another government order of control.

Such controls create their own problems, compounding the complexity of the problem.

There is much too much of that already.

[j2k4]

You yourself have stated that you don't pay Minimum Wage, and therefore we can make an assumption that you may be a good employer.

I "may" be a good employer?

Inversely, if I paid the minimum wage, might I still be a good employer?

Probably not, huh?

However for every good employer there are bad employers... when people need Jobs they must take what they can get. These bad employers are the ones that are making the Gap between Rich and Poor wider and pressurising the Good Employers to pay as little as possible so they can still compete.

Let's try this, then:

I pay a few dollars more than minimum wage.

Down the street is a steam laundry where people are paid minimum wage to fold towels.

The minimum wage hike is passed, and all of my people decide that working for me is too stressful, and they decide to go down the street and fold towels for minimum wage; the operator of the laundry hires my guys, 'cuz they are better workers than those he's currently employing, so those people are out of work.

In order to attract qualified people with a good work ethic, I find I must charge more so I can pay more...my employer informs me my services are too expensive, and now I am out of work, too.

And to think-a few paragraphs ago, I may have been a "good" employer.

They are therefore the ones that are slowly destroying the American Dream that you cherish.

The American Dream still exists, although it is at risk, but not for the reasons you imagine.

The way around this is to increase the minimum wage, in line with inflation. That way, the competition faces exactly the same rise in costs as yourself. More money is also being spent in the economy, instead of being hoarded by a small number of people, increasing the actual trade.

Nah.

Doesn't work that way here.

Inflation would, in turn, rise to "accomodate" the increased minimum.

People can afford small treats, such as going to a Restaurant occasionally or buying little luxuries now and again.

It increases the "Feel Good" factor, increases consumer confidence, so they are more willing to risk borrowing and splashing out.

And that is, we find, the problem with such inanity-the "Feel Good" factor is indeed experienced, but only by those who are responsible for the implementation of such idiocy.

There is no denying the importance of maintaining the mental and emotional well-being of the do-gooding anointed.

That garbage doesn't have the slightest positive effect, those at the bottom are still at the bottom, and nothing in the world is going to make them "Feel Good" about that, Rat.

[Busyman™]

You yourself have stated that you don't pay Minimum Wage, and therefore we can make an assumption that you may be a good employer.

I "may" be a good employer?

Inversely, if I paid the minimum wage, might I still be a good employer?

Probably not, huh?

However for every good employer there are bad employers... when people need Jobs they must take what they can get. These bad employers are the ones that are making the Gap between Rich and Poor wider and pressurising the Good Employers to pay as little as possible so they can still compete.

Let's try this, then:

I pay a few dollars more than minimum wage.

Down the street is a steam laundry where people are paid minimum wage to fold towels.

The minimum wage hike is passed, and all of my people decide that working for me is too stressful, and they decide to go down the street and fold towels for minimum wage; the operator of the laundry hires my guys, 'cuz they are better workers than those he's currently employing, so those people are out of work.

In order to attract qualified people with a good work ethic, I find I must charge more so I can pay more...my employer informs me my services are too expensive, and now I am out of work, too.

And to think-a few paragraphs ago, I may have been a "good" employer.

They are therefore the ones that are slowly destroying the American Dream that you cherish.

The American Dream still exists, although it is at risk, but not for the reasons you imagine.

The way around this is to increase the minimum wage, in line with inflation. That way, the competition faces exactly the same rise in costs as yourself. More money is also being spent in the economy, instead of being hoarded by a small number of people, increasing the actual trade.

Nah.

Doesn't work that way here.

Inflation would, in turn, rise to "accomodate" the increased minimum.

People can afford small treats, such as going to a Restaurant occasionally or buying little luxuries now and again.

It increases the "Feel Good" factor, increases consumer confidence, so they are more willing to risk borrowing and splashing out.

And that is, we find, the problem with such inanity-the "Feel Good" factor is indeed experienced, but only by those who are responsible for the implementation of such idiocy.

There is no denying the importance of maintaining the mental and emotional well-being of the do-gooding anointed.

That garbage doesn't have the slightest positive effect, those at the bottom are still at the bottom, and nothing in the world is going to make them "Feel Good" about that, Rat.

Uh yeah. I remember when gas was $1.75 a gallon.

Feel me?

Bottom wages should not stay at the same bottom forever.

I get where you are coming from even though you haven't said it. "Let the market decide what wages are to be paid."

It doesn't work due to the hoarding factor.

[j2k4]

Uh yeah. I remember when gas was $1.75 a gallon.

So do I.

Your point would be?

Feel me?

No, thanks.

Feel yourself.

Bottom wages should not stay at the same bottom forever.

An inane statement which serves the debatable purpose of crystalizing the inanity of the entire argument.

I thank you for making it, nonetheless.

I get where you are coming from even though you haven't said it. "Let the market decide what wages are to be paid."

Exactly and precisely correct.

If that were allowed, you will see an expansion of the economy (especially at it's lower-end, which seems to be the current topic here) the effect of which would also aid in addressing our immigration problems.

It doesn't work due to the hoarding factor.

The "hoarding factor" is largely a fiction, and mainly a rhetorical device designed by liberals for the expression of liberal...hmmmm...I hesitate to call them "thoughts" or "ideas"...how about, "schemes"?

[vidcc]

Logic would dictate that there should be maximum pay then if inflation is such a concern.

[Busyman™]

Uh yeah. I remember when gas was $1.75 a gallon.

So do I.

Your point would be?

Feel me?

No, thanks.

Feel yourself.

Bottom wages should not stay at the same bottom forever.

An inane statement which serves the debatable purpose of crystalizing the inanity of the entire argument.

I thank you for making it, nonetheless.

I get where you are coming from even though you haven't said it. "Let the market decide what wages are to be paid."

Exactly and precisely correct.

If that were allowed, you will see an expansion of the economy (especially at it's lower-end, which seems to be the current topic here) the effect of which would also aid in addressing our immigration problems.

It doesn't work due to the hoarding factor.

The "hoarding factor" is largely a fiction, and mainly a rhetorical device designed by liberals for the expression of liberal...hmmmm...I hesitate to call them "thoughts" or "ideas"...how about, "schemes"?

Hmmm, I never heard that from liberals. I don't read emails and propaganda from some "group" like you do. The hoarding factor is something I thought as common sense.

The hoarding factor is easy is to assume. You have this silly idea that all people with a bit of money wanna do is create jobs...that as soon as their is a tax cut or a slash in wages that BOOM 500 more jobs.

You are quite silly.

Oh and also without getting my thoughts from some "group", I figured this would factor into immigration. Again, it would make it nice and legal to pay whateverthefuck for services to them.

[sarcasm]This would help the whole economy out.[/sarcasm]

[Busyman™]

Logic would dictate that there should be maximum pay then if inflation is such a concern.

Eggzacklee.

If wages are currently like this (just a scale)

bottom 20 l-------------------l 5500 top

j2 wants it like this

bottom 1 l-----------------------------------------------------------l 7000

Yet cost of goods and services has risen

[j2k4]

Logic would dictate that there should be maximum pay then if inflation is such a concern.

Eggzacklee.

If wages are currently like this (just a scale)

bottom 20 l-------------------l 5500 top

j2 wants it like this

bottom 1 l-----------------------------------------------------------l 7000

Yet cost of goods and services has risen

In the example you've illustrated so well, what have your numbers "20" and "1" got in common?

They are both situated in direct and correct proximity to the word "bottom".

Case closed.

Vid-

In Busyman's post he typed the phrase, "You are quite silly"-I think he was speaking to you.

[vidcc]

In the example you've illustrated so well, what have your numbers "20" and "1" got in common?

They are both situated in direct and correct proximity to the word "bottom".

Case closed.

So your argument is that paying a living wage is silly as they will still be payed less than those at the top

Vid-

In Busyman's post he typed the phrase, "You are quite silly"-I think he was speaking to you.

Explain how having a maximum wage would not have an effect on inflation. Yes it is silly, but given the context of your argument against paying a living wage, justify one against the other.