I think the conditions in the world right now are favourable to a major war...

[cpt_azad]

No.

What Israel is doing right now is nothing short of what the Nazi's were doing in the late 30's and early 40's.

How anyone can blindly support a government that is committing genocide is beyond me....and the fact that other governments support it, well now that's just a bit absurd.

WTF?

What genocide?

I believe the Germans started WWII (although a great case is made that the overly-punitive nature of the Versailles Treaty "caused" WWII).

This conflict cannot be characterized as having been sparked by any but Hezbollah's exploits.

At the same time I condemn what the Hezbollah group has done and to some extent what they are doing, as in firing rockets blindly into Israel that has a lot of potential to kill/injure civillians, but I do support them when it comes to fighting the Israeli army, as in, not targeting civillians and using firearms/mortars to fight of the military (defending themselves).

With the case you are attempting to make against Israel, why bother condemning Hezbollah at all?

You cannot condemn them in one breath and excuse them with the next.

I really hope this conflict comes to an end soon, but alas, that is highly unlikely. I want to also say that I have nothing against the Jews, just the Zionists that wish to eradicate an entire race of people, and likewise for the extremist islamic groups that will stop at nothing to eradicate the Jews.

You seem to have something backwards.

The Zionists are the Israeli Jews, and any sentiment expressed by way of genocidal eradication belongs to Hezbollah/Hamas/Syria/Iran/Palestine, not Israel.

As to the end of hostilities, better you wish for an end forever, rather than an end soon.

In the end, Zionists ARE radical muslims, just with a different point of view, a different religion, and a shitload more weapons and technology.

I'll settle for a simple () elucidation of this particular point.

But I would like to point out something: If you're homeland was taken over by another group of people who wanted nothing more than for you and your kind to pack up and leave, while "they" cut off basic necessities and forced you to live in refugee camps for years on end, would you not pick up a gun and fight?

I sure as hell know that I would.

That was a bit exaggerated, I know full well that before the Holocaust, there were many Jews living in Palestine in harmony with Arabs. It just really makes me mad that what is allowed to happen there goes unnoticed by the rest of the world, and for that matter no one cares about the suffering of the Palestinians. And so they have to resort to drastic measures. While I'm at it, I also condemn suicide attacks and killing of innocent civillians, but pray tell, how can you justify the thousands and thousands of civillians the Israeli's have killed? Americans sure can be blind sometimes to support their government a bit too much, let along another govenment just because they're fighting supposed "terrorists". Sickening.


[/rant]

I realize that was a rant, but rants aren't productive.

What do you think would be Israel's fate were she not better-armed than her neighbors, and capable of defending herself?

Now, once you've got the answer firmly fixed in your mind, post again, and you might come up with what you really think.

So defending is defined as attacking other countries and killing their civillians? Also, why do you think the Hezbollah captured the two Israeli soldiers? Instead of automatically pointing the finger at the "terrorists", as the media would have you believe they are (please J2 forgive me, I know you are very well educated man and that last comment isn't directed at you, this first part of the post is a general rebuttle against those that hold the same position/evidence as you do), why not do your research. If you have no bargaining chip to free thousands of innocent people held without any trial, who have nothing to do with terrorist organisations, some of them women and teenagers, well, I'd sure as hell go and capture two or more soldiers of the opposing force to use as bargaining chips. Thank god Hezbollah isn't into the whole beheading trend...

On to your next comment, why can I not diversify? Do I have to STICK WITH ONE THING THROUGHOUT MY ENTIRE LIFE EVEN THOUGH IT'S WRONG...like some republicans and liberals do COUGH COUGH. No I don't, I do know that their tactics are questionable and that some of their acts are completely barbaric (as is like 90% of Israeli military actions) but what they (freedom fighters, terrorists, whatever you want to call them) are doing, fighting for their freedom, that I completely support. No, I will not condemn all their acts just because I condemned a few of them, if you want to call me a flip-flopper so be it, I'm not a brainless person.
Think about it like this, do you fully support Israel? From my point of view, I don't FULLY support Hezbollah, I can find faults, and I know there are faults, so why can you not look for faults in what Israel is doing? Are you that blind? Come on now, you are one of the most learned men on this board, and I respect you for that, please don't let me down.

Your next comment says that all Zionists are Israeli Jews,

Wikipedia: In 1947 Britain announced its intention to withdraw from Palestine, and on 29 November the United Nations General Assembly voted to partition Palestine into an Arab state and a Jewish state (with Jerusalem becoming an international enclave). The Jewish Agency accepted the plan, while the Arabs of Palestine and the neighboring countries rejected it and commenced to use force to abort the establishment on a Jewish state in the area allotted to it by the UN. Civil conflict between the Arabs and Jews in Palestine ensued immediately. On 14 May 1948 the leaders of the Jewish community in Palestine made a declaration of independence, and the state of Israel was established. This marked a major turning point in the Zionist movement, as its principal goal had now been accomplished. Many Zionist institutions were reshaped, and the three military movements combined to form the Israel Defence Forces.

So there was supposed to be a Palestinan state, but lets see, why on earth would the Palestinians reject that idea? Oh ya sorry my bad, I completely forgot that they were asked to give away half their land and rename all their borders and become a smaller country...ya ok that sounds pretty good...not.

I'm sorry, I think you misunderstood my post (hence the [/rant]) and I apologize for that. Here's what I meant:


In the end, Zionists ARE radical muslims, just with a different point of view, a different religion, and a shitload more weapons and technology. = In the end, zionists (Jews that will do anything and I mean anything to keep Israel intact) are no better than radical muslims, if you do not agree with this point, then my friend 2+2=22, the only difference between them are the fact that they belong to different religions and ideologies, and Israel has a much better equipped military and financing complimentary of the US of A. Zionists commit murder and kill in the name of Israel, and no one condemns this, but when a suicide bomber kills Israeli's the world cries out (point out here that I am absolutely against the idea of suicide bombers), but in retrospect, are they not the same??? A laser-guided precision bomb, that can never miss the target, hence intentional by the Israeli military, lands on a house and kills dozens of women and children is the exact same IF NOT WORST then the suicide bomber scenario, do you not agree?

If that was a rant, forgive me. But please feel free to rebutt as much as you like, I shall be back sooner than later. Awaiting your lengthy reply.

[j2k4]

So defending is defined as attacking other countries and killing their civillians? Also, why do you think the Hezbollah captured the two Israeli soldiers? Instead of automatically pointing the finger at the "terrorists", as the media would have you believe they are (please J2 forgive me, I know you are very well educated man and that last comment isn't directed at you, this post is a general rebuttle against those that hold the same position/evidence as you do), why not do your research. If you have no bargaining chip to free thousands of innocent people held without any trial, who have nothing to do with terrorist organisations, some of them women and teenagers, well, I'd sure as hell go and capture two or more soldiers of the opposing force to use as bargaining chips. Thank god Hezbollah isn't into the whole beheading trend...

As to that last, I'll reserve judgement.

Last I looked, any armed conflict begins with a first move, and that one's on Hezbollah...once the festivities begin, neither side owes the other quarter, and, truth be told, I think Israel has shown admirable restraint; war these days should be conducted so as to induce one side or the other to utterly surrender it's motivating intent-in other words, everything goes, this side of WMD.

Israel has not done this.

I don't feel it is productive or telling to bring up past events, especially in this case, because you'd soon be discussing Genesis; there is no proper beginning to it.

If the situation with prisoners goes begging, both sides can wipe that slate clean by killing all of them either holds, then going from there.

It would (at least) eliminate that point of contention, wouldn't it?

[cpt_azad]

So defending is defined as attacking other countries and killing their civillians? Also, why do you think the Hezbollah captured the two Israeli soldiers? Instead of automatically pointing the finger at the "terrorists", as the media would have you believe they are (please J2 forgive me, I know you are very well educated man and that last comment isn't directed at you, this post is a general rebuttle against those that hold the same position/evidence as you do), why not do your research. If you have no bargaining chip to free thousands of innocent people held without any trial, who have nothing to do with terrorist organisations, some of them women and teenagers, well, I'd sure as hell go and capture two or more soldiers of the opposing force to use as bargaining chips. Thank god Hezbollah isn't into the whole beheading trend...

As to that last, I'll reserve judgement.

Last I looked, any armed conflict begins with a first move, and that one's on Hezbollah...once the festivities begin, neither side owes the other quarter, and, truth be told, I think Israel has shown admirable restraint; war these days should be conducted so as to induce one side or the other to utterly surrender it's motivating intent-in other words, everything goes, this side of WMD.

Israel has not done this.

I don't feel it is productive or telling to bring up past events, especially in this case, because you'd soon be discussing Genesis; there is no proper beginning to it.

If the situation with prisoners goes begging, both sides can wipe that slate clean by killing all of them either holds, then going from there.

It would (at least) eliminate that point of contention, wouldn't it?

So, kill 2 Israeli Non-commisioned officers who will never amount to anything other than Infantry soldiers along with the thousands and thousands of innocent captives being held by Israel, mostly women and teenagers (yes there are criminals and terrorists amongst that populous, but a fraction of them only). If that will wipe the slate clean, then so be it, why not just kill the entire Palestinian population, while you're at it, go forward of it and kill off the Lebanese and the Syrians and perhaps some Egyptians, because one thing I've come to learn in today's sad world, is that no one in the West will think twice, the newsnetworks will broadcast the "defense of Israel (killing the thousands of captives)" and the "massacre of 2 soldiers" for a few days and all will be normal.

And please do tell, why we cannot discuss "who started it", where the heck did Genesis come from, this has nothing to do with origins of Life (probably a rhetorical statement but right now I'm not in the thinking state). They captured those 2 Israeli soldiers as bargaining chips to settle a score that Israel had brought upon itself, one day we all have to answer for our sins regardless of race, religion and beliefs.

[MediaSlayer]

Ah... the 25% of the population, that is restricted to 3% of the land... 95% of which is open for developmet to Jews only...

It's worth emphasizing that "Israeli democracy" is an incarnation of Apartheid South Africa's democracy.

It also could be argued that Apartheid South Africa was for a very long time the only democracy in Africa, however, it was a democracy for the White race only. Similarly, democracy in Israel was and still is designed to empower Jews only based on their religion.

At one point, Israel has to choose between being a "Democratic Jewish State" or a "Democratic State" to all of its citizens, Jews and non-Jews alike.

Just one small problem with the south african analogy. Are south africans targeted throughout the world because of who they are? I have spoken with many south africans while they were travelling here in my country and none of them ever reported that kind of thing away from their native region. I have heard alot of things happening there, but when they travel elsewhere, like asia for instance, are they being targeted just because they are south african? I think the answer is no. The idea of Israel is a place for Jews to live in peace without fanatic dickheads like you trying to kill them. Simple as that. Do you think you are fooling anybody on this forum? What makes you different than the arab with a bomb on his back hell bent on killing jews because "the koran said it was right"? The end result would be the same, although the reasoning might be different. Yes, I believe you, there was a time when you were a soldier with a gun in your hand. Who would you have liked to have killed with that gun?

The first time I printed this article, I only made this one paragraph bold without any comment at the bottom. I did that deliberately to see if anyone would notice the significance of the paragraph, and if anyone did, they didn't comment on it. So we see here, that even when the news is reported with both sides intact, some will see only one side.

At a news conference in Tel Aviv Sunday night, military officers showed aerial footage taken two days ago of Katyusha rockets being fired near houses in Qana, and of a Katyusha launcher firing missiles and then being driven into Qana and hidden inside a house.

[cpt_azad]

Ah... the 25% of the population, that is restricted to 3% of the land... 95% of which is open for developmet to Jews only...

It's worth emphasizing that "Israeli democracy" is an incarnation of Apartheid South Africa's democracy.

It also could be argued that Apartheid South Africa was for a very long time the only democracy in Africa, however, it was a democracy for the White race only. Similarly, democracy in Israel was and still is designed to empower Jews only based on their religion.

At one point, Israel has to choose between being a "Democratic Jewish State" or a "Democratic State" to all of its citizens, Jews and non-Jews alike.

Just one small problem with the south african analogy. Are south africans targeted throughout the world because of who they are? I have spoken with many south africans while they were travelling here in my country and none of them ever reported that kind of thing away from their native region. I have heard alot of things happening there, but when they travel elsewhere, like asia for instance, are they being targeted just because they are south african? I think the answer is no. The idea of Israel is a place for Jews to live in peace without fanatic dickheads like you trying to kill them.

RF does not want to kill Jews, so you can just calm down. Ask a Jew, is he targeted when he travels to other countries (within reason, i.e. not to Arab countries, I'll get to that in a second), go ahead ask, I'll wait.


Ok good.



Simple as that. Do you think you are fooling anybody on this forum?

If he were fooling anyone, it would be you.

What makes you different than the arab with a bomb on his back hell bent on killing jews because "the koran said it was right"?

What makes you different then a stereotypical facist SOB? Nothing. The Koran said it was right? Please, go read the Quran first then come back and post something intelligent. Why do you think all the Arab countries hate Israel and the Jews so much? Because of what Israel does and is doing. They (Israel/military/gov't) know damn well how to enrage the other Arab countries and piss em off good, use that as a catalyst, and when the "terrorists" strike back, they use that event as a shield and unleash hell. If Israel didn't do that and learned in the early 50's late 40's how to live in peace, Jews could roam the Earth freely just like everyone else.

The end result would be the same, although the reasoning might be different.

What end result? The fact that he'd kill someone? So you're saying that killing someone is killing a Jew? How does that exactly work? In that case, by your standards, the entire world is anti-semitic, even the Jews!

Yes, I believe you, there was a time when you were a soldier with a gun in your hand. Who would you have liked to have killed with that gun?

Only aggressors that would want to invade his country and take it away from him, an analogy to how the idea of Israel stole the land of Palestine. People like you are all talk, I know that I would defend my country and my land if it were invaded or taken away unrightfully, and yes, I am in the Air Force currently under ROTP so my credentials stand.

The first time I printed this article, I only made this one paragraph bold without any comment at the bottom. I did that deliberately to see if anyone would notice the significance of the paragraph, and if anyone did, they didn't comment on it. So we see here, that even when the news is reported with both sides intact, some will see only one side.

If man did not have opinion, we'd all be Bush's cronies.

At a news conference in Tel Aviv Sunday night, military officers showed aerial footage taken two days ago of Katyusha rockets being fired near houses in Qana, and of a Katyusha launcher firing missiles and then being driven into Qana and hidden inside a house.

Evidence is key, did you see the video? Thought so.

So very sad of a person you are.

[Busyman™]

As to that last, I'll reserve judgement.

Last I looked, any armed conflict begins with a first move, and that one's on Hezbollah...once the festivities begin, neither side owes the other quarter, and, truth be told, I think Israel has shown admirable restraint; war these days should be conducted so as to induce one side or the other to utterly surrender it's motivating intent-in other words, everything goes, this side of WMD.

Israel has not done this.

I don't feel it is productive or telling to bring up past events, especially in this case, because you'd soon be discussing Genesis; there is no proper beginning to it.

If the situation with prisoners goes begging, both sides can wipe that slate clean by killing all of them either holds, then going from there.

It would (at least) eliminate that point of contention, wouldn't it?

So, kill 2 Israeli Non-commisioned officers who will never amount to anything other than Infantry soldiers along with the thousands and thousands of innocent captives being held by Israel, mostly women and teenagers (yes there are criminals and terrorists amongst that populous, but a fraction of them only). If that will wipe the slate clean, then so be it, why not just kill the entire Palestinian population, while you're at it, go forward of it and kill off the Lebanese and the Syrians and perhaps some Egyptians, because one thing I've come to learn in today's sad world, is that no one in the West will think twice, the newsnetworks will broadcast the "defense of Israel (killing the thousands of captives)" and the "massacre of 2 soldiers" for a few days and all will be normal.

And please do tell, why we cannot discuss "who started it", where the heck did Genesis come from, this has nothing to do with origins of Life (probably a rhetorical statement but right now I'm not in the thinking state). They captured those 2 Israeli soldiers as bargaining chips to settle a score that Israel had brought upon itself, one day we all have to answer for our sins regardless of race, religion and beliefs.

Israel has no obligation to keep going along with bargaining chips. At some point there is a cut off.

I do tire of the lastest terrorist strike being mere a footnote or not mentioned at all but if a kid is at the end of an Israeli bullet, there's a fucking thread about it.

Hezbollah is thoroughly entrenched in Lebanon and the two are not easily separated. Lebanon seems to not do shit all about it besides a denunciation out in the open.

Maybe if muslims want an end to violence maybe they should fuck off and not provoke an attack. Middle eastern jews and muslims are like two dumb ass gangs claiming revenge for shit they started.

[j2k4]

In the end, Zionists ARE radical muslims, just with a different point of view, a different religion, and a shitload more weapons and technology. = In the end, zionists (Jews that will do anything and I mean anything to keep Israel intact) are no better than radical muslims, if you do not agree with this point, then my friend 2+2=22, the only difference between them are the fact that they belong to different religions and ideologies, and Israel has a much better equipped military and financing complimentary of the US of A. Zionists commit murder and kill in the name of Israel, and no one condemns this, but when a suicide bomber kills Israeli's the world cries out (point out here that I am absolutely against the idea of suicide bombers), but in retrospect, are they not the same??? A laser-guided precision bomb, that can never miss the target, hence intentional by the Israeli military, lands on a house and kills dozens of women and children is the exact same IF NOT WORST then the suicide bomber scenario, do you not agree?

If that was a rant, forgive me. But please feel free to rebutt as much as you like, I shall be back sooner than later. Awaiting your lengthy reply.

I find the flaw in your argument to be the one that begs to lead, yet has totally escaped your mention:

It is the stated aim of...oh, fuck it, let's just say the rest of the mid-east (probably including-truth be told-Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt) to wipe Israel off the map/push them into the sea/otherwise eradicate them.

The basic injustice (a mild description for a monstrous imperative, no?) which arises from the fact that this does not occasion a counter-commentary from any quarter, save the United States or it's handful of true allies, is an utter abomination.

'Nuff said.

[cpt_azad]

In the end, Zionists ARE radical muslims, just with a different point of view, a different religion, and a shitload more weapons and technology. = In the end, zionists (Jews that will do anything and I mean anything to keep Israel intact) are no better than radical muslims, if you do not agree with this point, then my friend 2+2=22, the only difference between them are the fact that they belong to different religions and ideologies, and Israel has a much better equipped military and financing complimentary of the US of A. Zionists commit murder and kill in the name of Israel, and no one condemns this, but when a suicide bomber kills Israeli's the world cries out (point out here that I am absolutely against the idea of suicide bombers), but in retrospect, are they not the same??? A laser-guided precision bomb, that can never miss the target, hence intentional by the Israeli military, lands on a house and kills dozens of women and children is the exact same IF NOT WORST then the suicide bomber scenario, do you not agree?

If that was a rant, forgive me. But please feel free to rebutt as much as you like, I shall be back sooner than later. Awaiting your lengthy reply.

I find the flaw in your argument to be the one that begs to lead, yet has totally escaped your mention:

It is the stated aim of...oh, fuck it, let's just say the rest of the mid-east (probably including-truth be told-Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt) to wipe Israel off the map/push them into the sea/otherwise eradicate them.

The basic injustice (a mild description for a monstrous imperative, no?) which arises from the fact that this does not occasion a counter-commentary from any quarter, save the United States or it's handful of true allies, is an utter abomination.

'Nuff said.

Very well put. I seem to have missed that point completely. Yes you are right, that there are countries in that region that would like nothing more than to destroy Israel, but does Israel deserve it? I mean, there were many Jews living in Palestine before the creation of Israel. Why not just change the name of Israel back to Palestine, that's the easy way out


Alas, it all goes back to who "started it" which is as childish as "which came first, the chicken or the egg" dilemma.

It's sad that you and I can admit our mistakes, learn from them (most of the times), and move on, while both the Arabs and the Zionists/Jews can never comprehend that concept.

[MediaSlayer]

RF does not want to kill Jews, so you can just calm down. Ask a Jew, is he targeted when he travels to other countries (within reason, i.e. not to Arab countries, I'll get to that in a second), go ahead ask, I'll wait.

Within reason? I like your politically correct scales, may I borrow them? And are you implying that arab countries "don't count"? Isn't that one of the reasons that the arab nations want so badly to fight the west right now, because of that kind of "they don't count" treatment they get from the west?


Jews are being targeted right now, throughout the world, but normally it's not in a physical way(but I will say I don't think I would feel very safe in France). When I look at news reports on TV, they have a tendency to show pictures of two things. Small palastinian babies(or recently lebanese) or young children lying dead and Israeli soldiers holding guns. What the news cannot get wrong is the numbers of rockets fired and things like that. Do you really think that a significant number of rockets can be fired at a city like haifa and not hit children? Is haifa a city free of children? When it happens, and it does happen, that kind of thing gets edited out. I don't watch BBC I'm commenting on American news outlets here.


What makes you different than the arab with a bomb on his back hell bent on killing jews because "the koran said it was right"?

What makes you different then a stereotypical facist SOB? Nothing. The Koran said it was right? Please, stfu and go read the Quran first then come back and post something intelligent.


Here is a quote from the Koran:
> And We had made known to the children of Israel in the Book: Most certainly you will make mischief in the land twice, and most certainly you will behave insolently with great insolence.

I can find some others if you want to argue that bad


Yes, I believe you, there was a time when you were a soldier with a gun in your hand. Who would you have liked to have killed with that gun?

Only aggressors that would want to invade his country and take it away from him, an analogy to how the idea of Israel stole the land of Palestine.


We have discussed the ownership of land thing before that's an entirely different thread. I can post a link to it if you are that bored.

If man did not have opinion, we'd all be Bush's cronies.


dude, that's like, deep.....


Evidence is key, did you see the video? Thought so.
[/B]

If you had read my post more carefully, I didn't say that it happened. I was commenting on the fact that an interesting piece of information went unnoticed.

[MediaSlayer]

wtf?? so, cpt_azad, instead of giving a rebuttal to my post you go back and edit the quotes that i quoted from yours?

What a coward, stand up and fight like a man. What would hezbollah think of your cowardly ways? Oh that's right, they would launch a rocket at Israeli civilians. Or better, Hamas