I think the conditions in the world right now are favourable to a major war...

[Rat Faced]

Ah... the 25% of the population, that is restricted to 3% of the land... 95% of which is open for developmet to Jews only...

It's worth emphasizing that "Israeli democracy" is an incarnation of Apartheid South Africa's democracy.

It also could be argued that Apartheid South Africa was for a very long time the only democracy in Africa, however, it was a democracy for the White race only. Similarly, democracy in Israel was and still is designed to empower Jews only based on their religion.

At one point, Israel has to choose between being a "Democratic Jewish State" or a "Democratic State" to all of its citizens, Jews and non-Jews alike.

Just one small problem with the south african analogy. Are south africans targeted throughout the world because of who they are? I have spoken with many south africans while they were travelling here in my country and none of them ever reported that kind of thing away from their native region. I have heard alot of things happening there, but when they travel elsewhere, like asia for instance, are they being targeted just because they are south african? I think the answer is no.

Think back to when they still had apartheid. There were sanctions against them from most of the world, some of the countries having internal policies on Race/Creed little better than their own.

The idea of Israel is a place for Jews to live in peace without fanatic dickheads like you trying to kill them. Simple as that. Do you think you are fooling anybody on this forum? What makes you different than the arab with a bomb on his back hell bent on killing jews because "the koran said it was right"? The end result would be the same, although the reasoning might be different. Yes, I believe you, there was a time when you were a soldier with a gun in your hand. Who would you have liked to have killed with that gun?

No-one. I didnt want to kill anyone, and luckily i never did.

I also disagree with your opinion that I'm anti-Jewish, there is plenty of evidence on this board that I'm not. My Fiancee is a Jew ffs.

Anti-Israeli? No.. I believe that Israel has a right to exist, I dont believe that it has the right to kill every fucker it wants to and call it "Self Defence". Before it gets sympathy from me re all this shit, it needs to put its own house in order, simple as that.

The first time I printed this article, I only made this one paragraph bold without any comment at the bottom. I did that deliberately to see if anyone would notice the significance of the paragraph, and if anyone did, they didn't comment on it. So we see here, that even when the news is reported with both sides intact, some will see only one side.

At a news conference in Tel Aviv Sunday night, military officers showed aerial footage taken two days ago of Katyusha rockets being fired near houses in Qana, and of a Katyusha launcher firing missiles and then being driven into Qana and hidden inside a house.

I think everyone here has already said that they understand about targeting Hizbollah and that Israel has the right to attack them.

Now show me the video of Hizbollah in the International Airport, Tripoli, Field Hospitals, Red Cross Convoys, UN Observation Post and Refugee Columns that were targeted.

[Rat Faced]

In the end, Zionists ARE radical muslims, just with a different point of view, a different religion, and a shitload more weapons and technology. = In the end, zionists (Jews that will do anything and I mean anything to keep Israel intact) are no better than radical muslims, if you do not agree with this point, then my friend 2+2=22, the only difference between them are the fact that they belong to different religions and ideologies, and Israel has a much better equipped military and financing complimentary of the US of A. Zionists commit murder and kill in the name of Israel, and no one condemns this, but when a suicide bomber kills Israeli's the world cries out (point out here that I am absolutely against the idea of suicide bombers), but in retrospect, are they not the same??? A laser-guided precision bomb, that can never miss the target, hence intentional by the Israeli military, lands on a house and kills dozens of women and children is the exact same IF NOT WORST then the suicide bomber scenario, do you not agree?

If that was a rant, forgive me. But please feel free to rebutt as much as you like, I shall be back sooner than later. Awaiting your lengthy reply.

I find the flaw in your argument to be the one that begs to lead, yet has totally escaped your mention:

It is the stated aim of...oh, fuck it, let's just say the rest of the mid-east (probably including-truth be told-Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt) to wipe Israel off the map/push them into the sea/otherwise eradicate them.

The basic injustice (a mild description for a monstrous imperative, no?) which arises from the fact that this does not occasion a counter-commentary from any quarter, save the United States or it's handful of true allies, is an utter abomination.

'Nuff said.

One thing here that disposes of your entire argument..

The proposals in 2003 orginating in Saudi and agreed with the entire Arab League, which would have had Israel and its right to exist recognised by every Arab State. These were dimissed out of hand by Israel and the USA, despite being the fairest "Peace Offer" to date.

I think the general thrust was... go back to the Borders of 1967, however if you've already settled part, no problem..give the equivalent amount of land from somewhere else and keep the settled area. Forget about the UN resolution on the returnee's.

This comes down to the Strongest Country in the Middle East is bombing the crap out of the Weakest.

[MediaSlayer]

The first time I printed this article, I only made this one paragraph bold without any comment at the bottom. I did that deliberately to see if anyone would notice the significance of the paragraph, and if anyone did, they didn't comment on it. So we see here, that even when the news is reported with both sides intact, some will see only one side.

At a news conference in Tel Aviv Sunday night, military officers showed aerial footage taken two days ago of Katyusha rockets being fired near houses in Qana, and of a Katyusha launcher firing missiles and then being driven into Qana and hidden inside a house.

I think everyone here has already said that they understand about targeting Hizbollah and that Israel has the right to attack them.

It's not even that, Paul. If that(video footage) were true, about them(hezbollah) using that particular house as a hiding place for their rocket launcher, then that would be fairly clear evidence of them(hezbollah) using their own civilians as human sheilds. Women and children at that.

Soooo... a quick recap of the chain of events that led up to the 48 partial ceasefire would be:

1-An Israeli airstrike on the city of Qana left ~56 people dead, mostly women and children

2-In the wake of the strike, international pressure caused the Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert to agree to a 48 hour partial ceasefire. Meanwhile the Israeli military would investigate the incident.

3-During her mideast visit, Condoleezza Rice was forced to cut short her mission and make some conciliatory comments with regards to the attack, and also hint that in respose she would push for a (cease fire oriented)resolution at the U.N. Security Council this week.

4-At a news conference in Tel Aviv Sunday night, military officers showed aerial footage taken two days ago of Katyusha rockets being fired near houses in Qana, and of a Katyusha launcher firing missiles and then being driven into Qana and hidden inside a house.


>quote-I also disagree with your opinion that I'm anti-Jewish, there is plenty of evidence on this board that I'm not. My Fiancee is a Jew ffs.

Oh please, does that really prove anything? Is George Bush a "black friendly president" just because he picked Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to be his "hey look at me, how much i like black people" Secretary of State? Were you born here, you would have made a good Republican.

[cpt_azad]

wtf?? so, cpt_azad, instead of giving a rebuttal to my post you go back and edit the quotes that i quoted from yours?

What a coward, stand up and fight like a man. What would hezbollah think of your cowardly ways? Oh that's right, they would launch a rocket at Israeli civilians. Or better, Hamas

Laziness and cowardness are two completely different things, learn the difference my friend it can come in handy sometimes . Stand up and fight like a man? What exactly will I be fighting? Israel? Then I'd be automatically labelled as a "terrorist" by you and your redneck friends, but you know what? I'd gladly fight Israel if I were in the position to do so. The injustices done by Israel will have to be answered one day, and the injustices caused by the "terrorists" too, I'm not biased, I don't strongly believe in one thing while exempting it for another group. Both groups have done wrong, one more than the other, guess which group that is.

Launching a rocket at civillians compared to launching a laser guided ordinance with deadly accuracy at civillians are also two completely different things, do you not remember those civillians/families killed on the beach by a helicopter using precision bombs? Oh right, I bet you probably don't thanks to your CNN and FOX news.

Listen my friend, my fight isn't with you, but for as long as I live I will be targeted by your kind because I have an opinion that differs from your's and that of Bush's, and for that I will not apologize at all because unlike others of my generation I believe Freedom of Speech is a right, something that most Americans seem not to care about anymore, they will just conform to whatever the media tells them and play along believing what the government wants them to believe, which if I'm not mistakened is called laziness (at least to some extent), do your own research, make up your own opinions, and I know that there is no way in hell that I will ever change your opinion and I completely respect that, at least you have an argument to make with some really bad evidence nonetheless, but hey at least your trying. Call me whatever you want, terrorist, hippie, liberal, anti-semite, just ask yourself one thing, what would you do if you are in the shoes of a Palestinian?

[Busyman™]

I find the flaw in your argument to be the one that begs to lead, yet has totally escaped your mention:

It is the stated aim of...oh, fuck it, let's just say the rest of the mid-east (probably including-truth be told-Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt) to wipe Israel off the map/push them into the sea/otherwise eradicate them.

The basic injustice (a mild description for a monstrous imperative, no?) which arises from the fact that this does not occasion a counter-commentary from any quarter, save the United States or it's handful of true allies, is an utter abomination.

'Nuff said.

One thing here that disposes of your entire argument..

The proposals in 2003 orginating in Saudi and agreed with the entire Arab League, which would have had Israel and its right to exist recognised by every Arab State. These were dimissed out of hand by Israel and the USA, despite being the fairest "Peace Offer" to date.

I think the general thrust was... go back to the Borders of 1967, however if you've already settled part, no problem..give the equivalent amount of land from somewhere else and keep the settled area. Forget about the UN resolution on the returnee's.

This comes down to the Strongest Country in the Middle East is bombing the crap out of the Weakest.

No it doesn't.

Stop fucking with the strongest country then.

[cpt_azad]

One thing here that disposes of your entire argument..

The proposals in 2003 orginating in Saudi and agreed with the entire Arab League, which would have had Israel and its right to exist recognised by every Arab State. These were dimissed out of hand by Israel and the USA, despite being the fairest "Peace Offer" to date.

I think the general thrust was... go back to the Borders of 1967, however if you've already settled part, no problem..give the equivalent amount of land from somewhere else and keep the settled area. Forget about the UN resolution on the returnee's.

This comes down to the Strongest Country in the Middle East is bombing the crap out of the Weakest.

No it doesn't.

Stop fucking with the strongest country then.

So all the other countries should just stop "fucking" with the strongest country because of the fact they are the strongest country in the M.E.? Sorry Busy, they aren't that cowardly as to not stand up and say to themselves "Oh wow, what Israel is doing is completely insane, I gotta do something".

Of course, suiciding bombings and killing Israeli civillians is 110% wrong in any case, but what justifies Israel killing Palestinian civillians? Isn't that also 110% wrong? Why would you exempt that for Israel while condeming the others for it? Are they that special? Also, how many more Palestinian+Lebanese+Syrian civillians have died compared to Israeli civillians?

[Busyman™]

No it doesn't.

Stop fucking with the strongest country then.

So all the other countries should just stop "fucking" with the strongest country because of the fact they are the strongest country in the M.E.? Sorry Busy, they aren't that cowardly as to not stand up and say to themselves "Oh wow, what Israel is doing is completely insane, I gotta do something".

Of course, suiciding bombings and killing Israeli civillians is 110% wrong in any case, but what justifies Israel killing Palestinian civillians? Isn't that also 110% wrong? Why would you exempt that for Israel while condeming the others for it? Are they that special? Also, how many more Palestinian+Lebanese+Syrian civillians have died compared to Israeli civillians?

You are saying the same shit in reverse. and now we're starting.....

Middle eastern jews and muslims are like two dumb ass gangs claiming revenge for shit they started.

Also the point was, it doesn't just come down to the strongest country bombing the weakest.

Both countries fight with their strengths. One can't suicide bomb a crowded bus then one-sidedly complain that they were too bombed in a different manner in response.

Suicide bombers targets are only civilian in Israel. What comes of that? An Israeli response. If Israel does nothing for 2 months they'd get suicide bombs, rockets, and/or kidnappings for their trouble.

Ya damn right it's not just "this comes down to the strongest country bombing the weakest".

Again, stop fucking with the stronger country.

[MediaSlayer]

Oh right, I bet you probably don't thanks to your CNN and FOX news.

Like the eccentric man portrayed in this article, I don't own a television so I don't watch cnn very often. I would not watch fox regardless, except to poke fun at it. The only time I watch TV is when I'm at the pub and it happens to be on.

Then I'd be automatically labelled as a "terrorist" by you and your redneck friends,

I do not normally use that word, it's a propaganda tool. When I do, I use it in parenthesis like I have done above. I have even gone so far as to claim, on this very forum, that there is no such thing as terrorism, only "scararism" which is the same concept as the parent telling the little child about the monster under his/her bed that will do something bad to him/her if he/she does not behave. In a similar fashion did those in positions of power in this country put everyone(in this country at least) on guard after September 11th and had everyone beat down into submission with fear so they would pass the hideous "patriot act".

and what you are saying to busy about how many israeli's killed versus how many lebanese and palastinian killed,

compare the total world jewish population, which is not more than 1% of world population to the total arab population of palastine, lebanon, syria, jordan, ect....


then maybe you might see that the arab nations have more people, iran in particular has made headlines lately to the tune of "we will sacrifice our lives for....." the idea is that if you die for a religious cause you will go to heaven

but if they kill enough israeli's in the process, there will be arabs leftover but no israelis

obviously, the israelis don't want that

[cpt_azad]

Like the eccentric man portrayed in this article, I don't own a television so I don't watch cnn very often. I would not watch fox regardless, except to poke fun at it. The only time I watch TV is when I'm at the pub and it happens to be on.

Then I'd be automatically labelled as a "terrorist" by you and your redneck friends,

I do not normally use that word, it's a propaganda tool. When I do, I use it in parenthesis like I have done above. I have even gone so far as to claim, on this very forum, that there is no such thing as terrorism, only "scararism" which is the same concept as the parent telling the little child about the monster under his/her bed that will do something bad to him/her if he/she does not behave. In a similar fashion did those in positions of power in this country put everyone(in this country at least) on guard after September 11th and had everyone beat down into submission with fear so they would pass the hideous "patriot act".

and what you are saying to busy about how many israeli's killed versus how many lebanese and palastinian killed,

compare the total world jewish population, which is not more than 1% of world population to the total arab population of palastine, lebanon, syria, jordan, ect....


then maybe you might see that the arab nations have more people, iran in particular has made headlines lately to the tune of "we will sacrifice our lives for....." the idea is that if you die for a religious cause you will go to heaven

but if they kill enough israeli's in the process, there will be arabs leftover but no israelis

obviously, the israelis don't want that

"We will sacrifice our lives for..." ok I see that point, and although a valid one, it's a flawed one you shouldn't have brought up. That statement means that they will fight, not civillians, but they meaning hardliners, militants, militias, "organisations" agains the Israeli and die if need be. This is not to be confused with the civillians, kids, mothers, innocent "bystanders" that get killed by precision bombing complimentary of Israel that don't want to fight and give their lives.

Just a simple comparison that people just won't answer (I think I've stated it 3 times now including this post): Precision bombing and random rocket fire, which one is more intentional? Both result in the killing of innocent civillians, but one of those options you know EXACTLY what your gonna end up with.

[Busyman]

Like the eccentric man portrayed in this article, I don't own a television so I don't watch cnn very often. I would not watch fox regardless, except to poke fun at it. The only time I watch TV is when I'm at the pub and it happens to be on.



I do not normally use that word, it's a propaganda tool. When I do, I use it in parenthesis like I have done above. I have even gone so far as to claim, on this very forum, that there is no such thing as terrorism, only "scararism" which is the same concept as the parent telling the little child about the monster under his/her bed that will do something bad to him/her if he/she does not behave. In a similar fashion did those in positions of power in this country put everyone(in this country at least) on guard after September 11th and had everyone beat down into submission with fear so they would pass the hideous "patriot act".

and what you are saying to busy about how many israeli's killed versus how many lebanese and palastinian killed,

compare the total world jewish population, which is not more than 1% of world population to the total arab population of palastine, lebanon, syria, jordan, ect....


then maybe you might see that the arab nations have more people, iran in particular has made headlines lately to the tune of "we will sacrifice our lives for....." the idea is that if you die for a religious cause you will go to heaven

but if they kill enough israeli's in the process, there will be arabs leftover but no israelis

obviously, the israelis don't want that

"We will sacrifice our lives for..." ok I see that point, and although a valid one, it's a flawed one you shouldn't have brought up. That statement means that they will fight, not civillians, but they meaning hardliners, militants, militias, "organisations" agains the Israeli and die if need be. This is not to be confused with the civillians, kids, mothers, innocent "bystanders" that get killed by precision bombing complimentary of Israel that don't want to fight and give their lives.

Just a simple comparison that people just won't answer (I think I've stated it 3 times now including this post): Precision bombing and random rocket fire, which one is more intentional? Both result in the killing of innocent civillians, but one of those options you know EXACTLY what your gonna end up with.

So again, you are one-sided. Suicide bombers go after civilians. Precision instruments are still at the mercy of human error.