Dutch court rejects ban of paedophile party

[j2k4]

The point is that no one age for any of these activities "fits all", which point was, indeed, "well and concisely put".

Fact.

Quit looking for sharks to jump; let things permeate before you respond.

Or you could go match notes with my good friend ilw (Ian), who suffers similarly and latently.

No sharks to jump. The point of no one age fits all is no shit but then backtracks to say that because one activity does fit that certain other ones should too.

Age of consent differs in many countries from 12-20 already, btw.

Thence my only point being the countries to which you refer are cognizant of such need as we have defined.

[Formula1]

There's no minimum age to smoke, you just have to be atleast 18 to smoke cigarettes.

Oh well in that case there's no minimum age to drink, you just have to be 21 to drink alcohol.

oops i meant "There's no minimum age to smoke, you just have to be atleast 18 to buy cigarettes".

[Busyman™]

Oh well in that case there's no minimum age to drink, you just have to be 21 to drink alcohol.

oops i meant "There's no minimum age to smoke, you just have to be atleast 18 to buy cigarettes".

That's better.

[Skweeky]

In answer to JPAUL (cause the damn board won't let me quote it for some reason)

Every single thing you named there is something you need to be taught in one way or another. Sex is a biological thing, not something you need be taught about years in advance, it'll come naturally to most surely?

I'm not saying it's alright for adults to have sex with 12 year olds.
However, why would it be wrong for a mature 13 year old boy to have sex with a mature 12 year old girl?

The point is, that kids are mature a lot earlier, they have sex a lot earlier, so why shouldn't they be allowed to do it? Instead of people harping on about how wrong it is for kids that young to have sex, maybe it would be better for the government to include more sex education in schools?

Kida will be kids and if they want to do it, they will so we might as well make sure they're informed properly. Something, that you must admit, is clearly missing in this country. There's more teenage pregnancies than anywhere else. Funny that. Countries with an open minded view towards sex don't have that problem.

[lynx]

In answer to JPAUL (cause the damn board won't let me quote it for some reason)

Every single thing you named there is something you need to be taught in one way or another. Sex is a biological thing, not something you need be taught about years in advance, it'll come naturally to most surely?

I'm not saying it's alright for adults to have sex with 12 year olds.
However, why would it be wrong for a mature 13 year old boy to have sex with a mature 12 year old girl?

The point is, that kids are mature a lot earlier, they have sex a lot earlier, so why shouldn't they be allowed to do it? Instead of people harping on about how wrong it is for kids that young to have sex, maybe it would be better for the government to include more sex education in schools?

Kida will be kids and if they want to do it, they will so we might as well make sure they're informed properly. Something, that you must admit, is clearly missing in this country. There's more teenage pregnancies than anywhere else. Funny that. Countries with an open minded view towards sex don't have that problem.

I think you've got some good points there.

A blanket "this is the age when sex is allowed" clearly doesn't work, so from that point of view I applaud countries which recognise that there needs to be a second standard where both parties are below a certain age or within a small number of years age difference.

Unfortunately, at that age kids are also far more susceptible to peer pressure, and generally the younger they are the more susceptible so I think that there probably still needs to be a minimum.

However, I disagree that it is related to teenage pregnancies. I think that's more an issue of respect and responsibility, in particular some kids attitude towards responsibility for their actions and respect for their bodies.

[Skweeky]

I DO think it is related to teenage pregnancies to a certain extent.
having lived in countries that are more or less the oppostite of each other where it comes to sex ed at school that's the conclusion I had to come too.

Of course there's also the factor of drink and drugs (again, maybe a more tolerant attitude towards it would give better results?)
But it always narrows down to the same thing;
create a clandestine/secretive aura around something and kids are bound to WANT to find out what all the fuss is about.

I never ever felt peer pressure where it came to having sex, but still I would've been below the legal age in this country. My niece, who's 7 years younger than I am felt exactly the same way.

Kids I know in Belgium, don't have their first secual experience when drunk or on some party.
Kids I know here all lost their virginity on a one night stand. Some of them got pregnant because they were too afraid to bring up the topic of contraception in school or with their parents...

I honestly believe, that if kids are taught about the facts and the emotions from an earlier age, they will automatically be more conscious about it and not just do'it' for the sake of finding out what 'it' is all about

[JPaul]

Skweeky,

I agree with the bulk of what you say, in relation to sex education etc. It is also the case that Children will have "under-age" sex, you could probably argue that the majority of people do. However how often are they actually prosecuted for it? The law can take a sensible view towards these things and choose not to prosecute to 14 year olds for having "under-age" sex.

However if the age of consent is lowered to 12, as these people suggest, then the law can do nothing if a 45 year old has sex with a twelve year old who has "consented". I discussed earlier that this "consent" may be nothing of the sort, however she did say "yes" which made it OK.

I know loads of 12 year olds, I have three boys who have been twelve and who brought 12 year old friends home. None of them, not one was mature enough to become involved in a consenting sexual relationship with an adult.

In all honesty the fact that it may be acceptable in another country is of no interest to me. I think 16 is a reasonable compromise and long may it continue.

[Skweeky]

I'm not saying it should be allowed for 12 year olds to have sex with a 45 year old but a 'double' age of consent would be appropriate imo.

16 or above if the age difference is more than 5 years is reasonable. 16 as the general age of consent is ridiculous. You said it yourself; the law doesn't prosecute any kids who choose to have sex amongst themselves, so why is that law there? It's abundant.

[JPaul]

I'm not saying it should be allowed for 12 year olds to have sex with a 45 year old but a 'double' age of consent would be appropriate imo.

16 or above if the age difference is more than 5 years is reasonable. 16 as the general age of consent is ridiculous. You said it yourself; the law doesn't prosecute any kids who choose to have sex amongst themselves, so why is that law there? It's abundant.

It's there so we can prosecute paedophiles. If there was no law then they may be doing something which was morally wrong, but they could not be prosecuted for it. There has to be an age of consent, otherwise there would be nothing we could do about them. We basically chose 16, but then don't do anything about "under-agers" so long as both parties consent. I know that might sound daft to you, but it really is there to protect those who would otherwise be taken advantage off.

Funny, I was thinking about the dual age thing as well. However that would have to be in conjunction with a very much improved sex education programme. You've seen it here and it really isn't up to scratch. There should be more specialists, going to schools, teaching the children. We had long discussions with ours and supplied condoms in addition to information. However a lot of parents don't help with homework, far less get involved in that whole kettle of biscuits.

[Skweeky]

JPaul,

I completely understand that it is a way of protecting children against abuse and indeed I do believe a dual age of consent would be better for everyone.

I'm often still shocked at the lack of knowledge some of the children around here have about sex.
My boyfriends' mate has got a 12-year old daughter and they just don't talk to her about sex because it'll 'only encourage her' because 'she's already into boys too much'

I cannot believe people can be this stupid, in a country where you can't walk out of the door without bumping into a teenage mum...

I watched a series a few months back with Davina McCall, can't remember the title of it now, but there was a 14 year old boy on there who genuinly thought babies came out of eggs...
A 15 year old girl with a baby living in a council flat with hardly enough money to afford food refused to take an contaceptives because she was too emberassed to talk about it

That's just wrong