*official Matrix Chat* Reloaded & Revolution Chat

[slick nick]

Originally posted by scruge@21 May 2003 - 04:16
Remember when Smith assimulates the goat-t guy early in the movie. If you recall they had a little computer device (memory chip) they had recieved from the Oracle. The first guy to exit the matrix took it with him and later gave it to Neo in Zion.

How in the world did he transport the device out of the matrix????

Who had the device? Neo and crew or goatee dude? I remember i saw that guy with a knife but it looked like he only shook his hand. i'm downloading a copy right now. I'll get back to you on this.

[scruge]

Originally posted by slick nick+21 May 2003 - 04:25--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (slick nick @ 21 May 2003 - 04:25)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--scruge@21 May 2003 - 04:16
Remember when Smith assimulates the goat-t guy early in the movie. If you recall they had a little computer device (memory chip) they had recieved from the Oracle. The first guy to exit the matrix took it with him and later gave it to Neo in Zion.&nbsp;

How in the world did he transport the device out of the matrix????

Who had the device? Neo and crew or goatee dude? I remember i saw that guy with a knife but it looked like he only shook his hand. i&#39;m downloading a copy right now. I&#39;ll get back to you on this. [/b][/quote]
At the very begining of the movie when you see the two guys drop down through the skylite to get away from Smith. The goatee guy hands his partner the device and says you go first. The guy exits the matrix and then Smith drops down and assimulate the goatee guy before he exits. The partner carring the device out of the matrix, later in the movie gives the device to Neo while in Zion.

[Alucard1475]

At first, thanks for the early responses to the questions I asked.

What is the Oracle? I know that she is a really smart program, but if the Architect created the matrix and everything else, so what is then the Oracle&#39;s purpose. Why was she created by the Architect too. Did the Architect took in consideration that if somebody could have freed himself out of the matrix that he/she could get advice from the Oracle? Didn&#39;t the Architect considder that Oracle&#39;s creation is the most important part of the matrix and that she could be the key to everybody, i.e. the french guy, the key-maker and even to himself.

[scruge]

Originally posted by Alucard1475@21 May 2003 - 04:56
At first, thanks for the early responses to the questions I asked.

What is the Oracle? I know that she is a really smart program, but if the Architect created the matrix and everything else, so what is then the Oracle&#39;s purpose. Why was she created by the Architect too. Did the Architect took in consideration that if somebody could have freed himself out of the matrix that he/she could get advice from the Oracle? Didn&#39;t the Architect considder that Oracle&#39;s creation is the most important part of the matrix and that she could be the key to everybody, i.e. the french guy, the key-maker and even to himself.

There is a lot of debate regarding the role of the Oracle.

I think she is an anomaly, a program gone good.
I think her purpose in the earlier iterations of the matrix was to help counsel &#39;the one&#39; , and to keep him on track.
I believe now she is in favor of releasing the humans from the matrix which has now made her an enemy. She now has a body guard and meetings are in different places. The Frenchman even mentions her days are numbered, as if to say we&#39;re closing in on her.

[kildred11]

I stated this earlier as a thought and I still can&#39;t comprehend why the machines would destroy Zion and rebuild it. I mean what is hte point? It makes no sense to destroy something that you don&#39;t want just to rebuild it. The humans are trying to destroy the machines. The machines aren&#39;t going to tell Neo the truth. They will lie to him to confince them they are doing otherwise. Seems like a waste of resources to rebuild a real world over and over. Makes more sense if Zion was a Virtual Reality made to see how the humans could fight back. And if they have destroyed and rebuilt Zion in a real world they would know how to get their the quick way. They wouldn&#39;t have to bore.

[slick nick]

Originally posted by kildred11@21 May 2003 - 06:30
I stated this earlier as a thought and I still can&#39;t comprehend why the machines would destroy Zion and rebuild it. I mean what is hte point? It makes no sense to destroy something that you don&#39;t want just to rebuild it. The humans are trying to destroy the machines. The machines aren&#39;t going to tell Neo the truth. They will lie to him to confince them they are doing otherwise. Seems like a waste of resources to rebuild a real world over and over. Makes more sense if Zion was a Virtual Reality made to see how the humans could fight back. And if they have destroyed and rebuilt Zion in a real world they would know how to get their the quick way. They wouldn&#39;t have to bore.

I think it&#39;s like they said. On a subconscious level people will know something isn&#39;t right. Giving them hope through having a zion occupies them in the mean while until things reach a critical point when the anomaly makes his way to the architect. They aren&#39;t keeping it because they want it but for the purpose it serves which is a place for the corrupted. The littlest thing which doesn&#39;t ring true like the squigglies quickly reaching Zion would tip people off that they made zion and be the subconscious thing that would mess up the program again.

On another note i just watched that scene and indeed the two guys have a paper or envelope when re-entering zion that I think is delivered to neo later from the oracle. te only thing is though they didn&#39;t say who they got it from before Smith assimilated that dude. I think mjust like skills and weapons can be downloaded into the matrix things can be brought out with people to be converted into disc for data retrieval by the intended like neo.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

***SPOILER***

Do not bitch about this ruining anything. You have been forewarned.

"Zion is basically the Recycle Bin. Zion was destroyed six times before, because that is what the one was written in for. As the architect said, 99% of people accept the Matrix without question. The Oracle is software written to monitor, who allows the matrix to be executed upon them and to help extradite the removal of the others, who do NOT accept, to Zion through "prophecy". Prophecy that is scripture written around the knowledge of who would be the next One. She got the humans to buy it, through prophetic manipulation of her followers including Morpheus. Once too many people fill up Zion, they have to empty the bin and start over. Why do they keep allowing Zion to be rebuilt and destroyed? Simple. The Matrix is not a closed system. People who have compromised the integrity of it by not accepting the internal programming are not welcome entities. If not taken out by agents, they can merely unplug themselves and retreat to a hole, an "anthole" if you will several hundred miles below the crust of the Earth, to be wiped away every so often. If you have variables in an array that compromise it&#39;s validity, it is preferable to pop themm off of the stack than to keep them in. And when Zion hits "critical mass", that is when the "One" is called back into the main OS to shut it down. One can not operate new software on a server without rebooting, which is Neo&#39;s simple task. He is the reset button. He allows the upgraded Matrix script (Revision Number 7, now) to go into effect, hopefully not being subject to an anomaly, a bug, which is what Neo is, albeit a bug intentionally put into the system to allow for the unexpected failure in groups of humans attached to the Matrix. I believe Agent Smith is the deciding variable. I think with Neo crossing with him, Neo has acquired a bit of him, and vice versa, and I think Agent Smith is the key to ending the cyclke, once and for all."

SPECIAL THANKS TO BLACKLODGE77 FOR COMPILING THAT EXPLANATION.

This comment was edited at 05/18/2003 1:41 AM

from a counter strike forum i visit... good explanations/opinions there....

[kaizix]

i can&#39;t sit here and read 13 pages worth of theories. but has anyone mentioned the theory about a matrix inside a matrix? i&#39;m just curious as to peoples thoughts on that.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

heres the whole architect script, as it is pretty important to this discussion...

ARCHITECT TRANSCRIPT:

Architect: Hello, Neo.

Neo: Who are you?

Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I have been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant.

Neo: Why am I here?

Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent in the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden deciduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexorably here.

Neo: You haven&#39;t answered my question.

Architect: Quite right. Interesting, that was quicker than the others.

Neo: Others? (What others? How many? Answer me.)

Architect: The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next. In which case this is the sixth version.

Neo: Then there are only two possible explanations, either no one told me, or no one knows.

Architect: Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly is systemic. Creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

Neo: Choice. The problem is choice.

Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect; it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo: The Oracle.

Architect: Please. As I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level. While this answer functioned it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly. That if left
unchecked might threaten the system itself, ergo those that refuse the program while the minority if unchecked would cause an escalating probability of disaster.
Neo: This is about Zion.

Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo: Bullshit.

Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it. The function of the One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry reinserting the prime program after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix. Which, coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire
human race.

Neo: You won&#39;t let it happen, you can&#39;t. You need human beings to survive.

Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world. It is interesting reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way your experience is far more specific, vis-a-vis love.

Neo: Trinity.

Architect: Apropo. She entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo: No.

Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors, the door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion, the door to your left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do don&#39;t we? Already I can see the chain reaction the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple
and obvious truth: she is going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don&#39;t meet again.

Architect: We won&#39;t.

[Schmiggy_JK23]

Originally posted by kaizix@21 May 2003 - 01:20
i can&#39;t sit here and read 13 pages worth of theories. but has anyone mentioned the theory about a matrix inside a matrix? i&#39;m just curious as to peoples thoughts on that.

if you did, you would know the answer to that, lol...

but we are seemingly leaning toward zion being almost a 2nd matrix, i think... but we dont know for sure... at least the zion, or real world we see at the end of reloaded, being a 2nd matrix.