Morality Question...

[Buffalo]

Originally posted by MagicNakor@15 May 2003 - 23:25
If I'm not mistaken, I think the internet was originally meant to be used by scientists and scholars only, to have an easy way to share information. Then it got commericalized and available to Joe Public.

That's OT anyway.

Quote from my post on page one, "AS a good friend of one of the founders of the information superhighway, The intention of the internet was free to all, it's only since the take over of companies"
If we think it's bad now what will it be like in a few years time.
Barry @

[ShareDaddy]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@15 May 2003 - 15:41
Sharedaddy, it seems to me there are two seperate issues:

1/ Morality

2/ Legality


Laws exist, but are not necessarily right and moral.

Some, such as those concerning Murder and Theft are obviously Moral. They are there to protect a Society from those that would harm it.

Others are subjective; and must be viewed in the context of the society to which they pertane. For example Alcohol in Suadi Arabia is illegal, and due to their religious beliefs it may be 'moral' to have prohibition there, whereas the USA has already shown that it is not acceptable in its own country. This is an example of a 'moral' Law......remember 'morals' are not Universal in nature; what is moral one place isnt in another and vise versa; it is a product of the local beliefs.


Then there are Laws that are left over and still exist which have outlived their usefulness; even if they made sence at the time they were written. For example a Taxi in the UK (A Hackney Carriage) is still required to carry a Bail of Hay (with which to feed the horse).........obviously these laws are broken all the time, as they are rediculous in this day and age. Its immoral to still have them on the books, not to break them.


And then there is the grey areas, such as filesharing.

To me, the Law is an Ass as far as these laws are concerned; and i have no qualms about breaking them. They are used to keep Fat Cats rich. They do not protect Society, indeed they encourage Greed which damages Society. Are the Laws therefore 'Moral'? I personally do not think so.

Its GOOD to teach your kids to respect the Law, and follow it while young.

However, I encourage my oldest to Know the Law; and know the difference between Right and Wrong....not blindly follow it.

I would much rather he did what he felt was RIGHT than to do what is LEGAL.

He knows that if he is caught breaking the Law, then he is going to be punished. He also knows that if he can show that it is the Law that is at fault, I will stick by him all the way, as usually the only way to get rid of these Laws is to fight them.

Totally agree with your statements, that is how it is being handled at the moment, however I did get a few hints on what should be done when and if my sons cross the moral border on me. I want to raise them as moral and ethically sober as possible, this leads me to my current predicament. They currently do not think it is a crime, however I am also trying to convinve them that it is nothing to be flaunted either. Hopefully this helps straighten out my position.

Thanks for all of the replies thus far people, they are very welcome and so far have helped me at least understand where I want to go and possibly how to get there.

[ShareDaddy]

Also to clear something up you have to understand I not only download files of several types (movies music software) I am also adding to the massive collection (movie-wise if you did not notice my string), this in turn is where most of my dilemma lies. I am not only a user I am actually doing things that in other circumstances I may punish my children for.

[insanebassman]

I am glad old school sharing was not fucked with the way we are... What is the wheel idea was not allowed to be shared? What is the Lever was not put to so many innovative uses after the idea was shared... Hell, even cultivation of food just a systematic process that was shared and duplicated. Sharing makes healthier product through a saturation of users, makes a healthier market and provides a nice underground market for bands and inventors. Ethics are all situational. Knowledge is not something to be hoarded and hidden away. Granted, having access to a movie two days prior to theatrical release will not make the world a better place, but neither will hiding books and Software in prison cell warehouses.

My point is kinda vauge here and my spelling sux. I hope you all understand what I am trying to say....

[Grim]

No matter what you teach or tell kids they will always chose there own path in life. You tell a kid not to do something & what do they do, THEY GO & DO IT ANYWAY. So to my way of thinking the schools & the RIAA are wasting there time telling kids this.

[MagicNakor]

Originally posted by CELEBS_ARE_US+16 May 2003 - 00:46--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CELEBS_ARE_US @ 16 May 2003 - 00:46)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--MagicNakor@15 May 2003 - 23:25
If I&#39;m not mistaken, I think the internet was originally meant to be used by scientists and scholars only, to have an easy way to share information. Then it got commericalized and available to Joe Public.

That&#39;s OT anyway.

Quote from my post on page one, "AS a good friend of one of the founders of the information superhighway, The intention of the internet was free to all, it&#39;s only since the take over of companies"
If we think it&#39;s bad now what will it be like in a few years time.
Barry @ [/b][/quote]
Read in a tech mag (forget which one) about a year ago that they&#39;re going to build a second internet and keep it strictly for scholars/scientists. Wonder how it&#39;ll turn out.

[tennine]

Just a short word to walk the same way many already did...
What yous story makes me think about SD is some of these old opposition between scholar lessons and life lessons... don&#39;t forget school&#39;s role: teach children about legality and rules to respect. This MUST be completed with personnal evolution due to discussions every elsewhere (at home with parents or on party with friends...)
School teaches your boys filesharing is illegal so what? It&#39;s quite important for them to know about what they may risk doing it even if we all feel a different way about this .
Afterall you&#39;ll see them take their own statement based upon what they heard from every sources (school of course but your own experience too and not in a minor way ) and i really think that&#39;s the important point...
By the way if they don&#39;t make the good choice you should bring them in there to discuss the point

PS: forgive my shitty frenchie grammar...

[angellynn26]

I think it&#39;s important that all of you parents out there keep one important fact in mind...parenting is each to their own in this world. The need for persons in the American society to change their opinions just to match those of it&#39;s government and top 1% is absolutely ridiculous and suggests we are not intelligent enough to have our own ideas of what is right or wrong. Some laws are there to actually protect us from harm, but this country has gone overboard when it comes to invading the private homes and lives of its citizens.
Everyone always says "What would our founding fathers think?" I&#39;ll tell you what they would think....they would say that we have become the very England we ran away from...they would roll over in their graves at the magnitude of corruption, laws and invasions of privacy that the people have allowed this government to institute upon us. Stop worrying about what &#39;society&#39; says is right and wrong about an issue like this and start worrying about what YOU think. I wonder what it&#39;s like to go through life just accepting everything you&#39;re told as &#39;the way things should be&#39;. Changes in society do not have to result in changes in yourself unless you really can&#39;t think for yourself.
Oh, and for the love of pete...don&#39;t call this a MORAL issue. There is no morality issue here. If file sharing bothers you, you should look up the way the government has stolen from us our right to freedom of information. Look at how they have changed the length of copyrights to benefit big hollywood movie studios, bill gates, and all corporations. Once you see how much our rights have been stripped from us over the years, file sharing won&#39;t seem like a crime at all, but rather a RIGHT. So, advice for the kids...get your history in writing and explain to them how Corporate America lobbies and campaign finances our rights right down the toilet....then explain to them why their mommy, daddy, and grandparents sit back and watch as corrupt politicians get rich off of warping our rights to suit their own needs. There&#39;s a REAL morality issue for you&#33;
Morality, in and of itself, IS a religious concept. Therefore, it CANNOT be compromised, changed, or altered within a change in social opinion or laws imposed upon us by a government institution. It&#39;s truly sad when the two become so intertwined....it really makes an intelligent person wonder - what ever happened to seperation of church and state? I&#39;m a follower of Christ, but I follow Him because of my moral obligation to He who gave His life for me. Quite the opposite, I follow the laws of this country because of the "social contract" (look it up if you don&#39;t know what it is)...in a nutshell - "self-preservation". My moral contract with the Lord is absolutely non-negotiable, whereas, my social contract with this society is subject to much negotiation...per the contract agreement - The Constitution. Finally, I don&#39;t think God opposes file sharing...nuf said.

[ShareDaddy]

Originally posted by angellynn26@16 May 2003 - 04:48
I think it&#39;s important that all of you parents out there keep one important fact in mind...parenting is each to their own in this world. The need for persons in the American society to change their opinions just to match those of it&#39;s government and top 1% is absolutely ridiculous and suggests we are not intelligent enough to have our own ideas of what is right or wrong. Some laws are there to actually protect us from harm, but this country has gone overboard when it comes to invading the private homes and lives of its citizens.
Everyone always says "What would our founding fathers think?" I&#39;ll tell you what they would think....they would say that we have become the very England we ran away from...they would roll over in their graves at the magnitude of corruption, laws and invasions of privacy that the people have allowed this government to institute upon us. Stop worrying about what &#39;society&#39; says is right and wrong about an issue like this and start worrying about what YOU think. I wonder what it&#39;s like to go through life just accepting everything you&#39;re told as &#39;the way things should be&#39;. Changes in society do not have to result in changes in yourself unless you really can&#39;t think for yourself.
Oh, and for the love of pete...don&#39;t call this a MORAL issue. There is no morality issue here. If file sharing bothers you, you should look up the way the government has stolen from us our right to freedom of information. Look at how they have changed the length of copyrights to benefit big hollywood movie studios, bill gates, and all corporations. Once you see how much our rights have been stripped from us over the years, file sharing won&#39;t seem like a crime at all, but rather a RIGHT. So, advice for the kids...get your history in writing and explain to them how Corporate America lobbies and campaign finances our rights right down the toilet....then explain to them why their mommy, daddy, and grandparents sit back and watch as corrupt politicians get rich off of warping our rights to suit their own needs. There&#39;s a REAL morality issue for you&#33;
Morality, in and of itself, IS a religious concept. Therefore, it CANNOT be compromised, changed, or altered within a change in social opinion or laws imposed upon us by a government institution. It&#39;s truly sad when the two become so intertwined....it really makes an intelligent person wonder - what ever happened to seperation of church and state? I&#39;m a follower of Christ, but I follow Him because of my moral obligation to He who gave His life for me. Quite the opposite, I follow the laws of this country because of the "social contract" (look it up if you don&#39;t know what it is)...in a nutshell - "self-preservation". My moral contract with the Lord is absolutely non-negotiable, whereas, my social contract with this society is subject to much negotiation...per the contract agreement - The Constitution. Finally, I don&#39;t think God opposes file sharing...nuf said.

Well you hit it on the head, if you have read all of my posts in this string you would note that the only morality issue for me is the fact that stealing is immoral and should the school&#39;s continue thier assualt on filesharing it may in fact make my children think I am stealing. Now I also agree that my children will learn things in school and elsewhere that are not in direct alignment with what I am teaching them, however my main goal with this topic was to generate information that will help me resolve these type of issues as they come up, without my having to re-invent the wheel.

Thanks to everyone so far for the replies.

[insanebassman]

AMEN Angellynn26&#33;