Morality Question...

[ShareDaddy]

I do not know how many of you actually have children, however as I have 3 and they are becoming totally computer and internet literate I have ran across a few concerns lately. So far none of my boys think what I do here on the forum and KL is morally or ethicly wrong, however it is becoming evident that this is not to far off.

I am totally opposed to teaching my children bad things or things that the rest of the free world has chosen to affix the dreaded "theif" label to. The schools are teaching them that filesharing such as we participate in is legally wrong and therefore subject to scrutiny and severe penalties. I however feel opposed and or at least not fully in agreement with this type of thinking and would like to know if anyone else has come across a similar predicament.

I look forward to your replies.

[FuNkY CaPrIcOrN]

This is a good topic as I am sure you know how I feel about the whole situation with the RIAA and Musicians...and how we need to find a way to work something out.

I myself do not have no kids.....but will go take a smoke break and think how I would handle this one.

[Guillaume]

Originally posted by ShareDaddy@15 May 2003 - 19:44
The schools are teaching them that filesharing such as we participate in is legally wrong and therefore subject to scrutiny and severe penalties.

The schools are teaching your kids about filesharing? Wow, I didn't know the RIAA and such could reach this far! I don't have kids and I must confess I never thought about how I'll handle this subject and some others like weed... Thanks, you just ruined my sleep, since I'm gonna spend the night on this! If I ever reach a conclusion I'll let you know...

[Spindulik]

Good answer FC.

I agree with ShareDaddy. We are "betweeners". That is, between the peak of great filesharing, and the generation that is being tought that filesharing is illegal.

The main people to blame are software developers of years ago! Copying files was not feasable then. Nobody thought, that in the future that broadband would exist. Who the hell would create software (audio CDS are actually software too) and make it so easy to copy?

Kind of reminds me of Y2K. Those programmers of the 1970's new the possibility existed that the bug would rise in 2000, but the value of saving a byte of memory far exceeded the need. They did their job, got payed, and let the future guy worry about it.

Nintendo GameCube developers were slick! They created a mini-DVD that plays in reverse. Now try to copy that!

[oldmancan]

Interesting topic SD. I'm struggling with some of those issues too. I must admit I've been somewhat taken by the darkside. I want to be part of a community/society that is positive and constructive. I want my kids to be part of that world. I try to parent ... as I do...not just as I say.

So years ago we get a comp. No pirated anything...'cause besides being illegal there is the whole intellectual property issue. (Bring on the Flamin&#39. Thou shalt not steal...pretty simple. If someone shares with me great. But what if what they are sharing with me is not "theirs" to share?

The family rule was originally for software. So I come home one day and there's Napster. Well, how cool is that? I hear the dark side calling.

So we get into the tunes and let the morals slide abit.

Recently there was a post about legality (pick a day, any day - it seems) which got me thinking and researching. Had a family discussion. Found out that my wife had very strong feelings (negative) that she had been harbouring. My son was open to both sides, but prefers to not decide (can I dl while I think about it?).

I decided not to dl anymore copyrighted stuff. But that decision is based mostly on finding that post about making top quality mp3's. I love VBR, EAC and lame. I've been busy re-rip'n all my cd's.

So, right now we are sharing all my new rips and all my son's stuff. I deleted all my old 128 cbr mp3's. Under Canadian Law, I looking at a $1,000,000 per property (file) for "distributing". Works out to about 25 cents US.

I know that there are sites dedicated to high quality tunes. But I'm gonna stick to the idea of "fair use" and only have backups of material that I have legally purchased. As for the boyo he'll have to decide for himself. As for my wife she is happy to listen to a waaay smaller collection that she feels good about.

So far as k-lite we don't run it 24/7 much anymore. But it's usually running whenever the kid is on the comp. Once he takes a position we'll see about continuing to use k-lite or not.

I'm not judging anyone or promoting anything. I'm just telling my story. Pls keep the flaming in good humour. I believe in sharing and it seems to me that this forum shares the best commodity. Not mp3's, mpeg's nor software. Thoughts and information.

btw state your case if you want, but pls don't try to convince me about the evil greedy recording industry. You'd be preaching to the converted.

Peace

[CrumbCat]

  This is a good topic as I am sure you know how I feel about the whole situation with the RIAA and Musicians...and how we need to find a way to work something out.

I myself do not have no kids.....but will go take a smoke break and think how I would handle this one. 

FuNkY CaPrIcOrN - Very funny....."a smoke break" I got it.

ShareDaddy - My and my wife's first child is due this June, and I have been thinking about this very issue.....along with many others, for obvious reasons. But since I'm just beginning with 'fatherhood', I have the advantage of seeing what those in you situation do in matters such as this, take those into consideration, and then make my own decisions a few years from now.

Sorry I cannot be of help to you here.

Good luck with your fatherly responsibilities....today's, tomorrow's and all those to come.

Tchau!

[Ynhockey]

I don't have children but i was in 7th grade (or was it 8th?) when Napster shut down and the teacher did mention something about it being illegal... BUT the major opinion of the kids at school was that Napster's great and RIAA are the bad guys. True, sometimes kids look up to teachers the most, but from my experience, kids take advice from other kids far more willingly than from adults. I'm now a teenager and was lucky enough to be in a more-or-less mature age by the time that P2P was bashed and deemed bad... and i think that your kids will support P2P as well if they understand the concept of it - and since you say they are computer-literate, they should know best of all that P2P helps ppl more than it hurts them. Even if they think you're doing something wrong, i think that whenever they reach 13 or so (assuming they're not there yet), they'll understand that P2P isn't as bad as their teachers told them.

Therefore, i suggest that you look at this as a phase - like puberty, only an unnatural phase that was caused by the greedy RIAA (assuming, of course, that your kids ever thing P2P is wrong). This phase will pass, because, even though P2P has its disadvantages, i can't understand how a person in their right mind would actively oppose it - it's not stealing, after all. More like forgery.

Oh and don't worry that you're setting a bad example - i don't know about your family but in mine, and most other families i know, the parents aren't exactly perfect and they don't hide it, and hope that their children will understand their flaws.

My 2 cents...

[ShareDaddy]

Originally posted by Gurahl@15 May 2003 - 13:58
The schools are teaching your kids about filesharing? Wow, I didn't know the RIAA and such could reach this far! I don't have kids and I must confess I never thought about how I'll handle this subject and some others like weed... Thanks, you just ruined my sleep, since I'm gonna spend the night on this! If I ever reach a conclusion I'll let you know...

You would not believe what is being taught in today’s schools, my son's are being taught or told things like they are not allowed to call any of their friends that are girls "girlfriends".

They are being taught computers in pre-school and kindergarten, heck all three of my sons are better at using a mouse than my wife. Some of the new things are cool, however more and more things that were every day occurrences or goings on while I was in school (IE kissing, fighting, name calling, threats) are becoming illegal and will in current times cause expulsions or at a minimum suspensions ranging from a day to a month.

Now I agree that after the shooting incidents in schools over the last 5 years or so that some rules needed to be put in place, however I think too many rules may impact the children’s overall development.
I mean for the most part kids of my generation (born in the late sixties) all turned out OK, I mean I do not recall a school shooting or other high profile serious incident in all of my 13 years of public schooling. What is causing this? It certainly is not calling your friends that are girls, girlfriends.

[FuNkY CaPrIcOrN]

I want to say something...but then the thread will just get thrown in a whole new direction....so no more post from me on this.Cause I could post all day long about filesharing...our community and who is right and wrong.

Wish you look ShareDaddy.

[tianup]

Originally posted by ShareDaddy@15 May 2003 - 19:44
I do not know how many of you actually have children, however as I have 3 and they are becoming totally computer and internet literate I have ran across a few concerns lately. So far none of my boys think what I do here on the forum and KL is morally or ethicly wrong, however it is becoming evident that this is not to far off.

I am totally opposed to teaching my children bad things or things that the rest of the free world has chosen to affix the dreaded "theif" label to. The schools are teaching them that filesharing such as we participate in is legally wrong and therefore subject to scrutiny and severe penalties. I however feel opposed and or at least not fully in agreement with this type of thinking and would like to know if anyone else has come across a similar predicament.

I look forward to your replies.

Dude - My daughter is only 7, so this hasn't really come up yet (though I have thought about it). However, as a musician/songwriter and producer/engineer, I deal with the issue everyday with industry peers, clients and friends. To be honest, most people I know (including songwriters and artists) don't give a fuck either way, because they understand what's going on. The record and film industries have been playing their games too long, and artists, songwriters, producers, actors, etc. who are intelligent about their careers and understand the evolution of the industry are still getting paid, if not more then they were before.

Before I get carried away (back to the point&#33, I'm sure you've had many circumstances as a parent already where your beliefs and those of the school or society in general just don't meet. How about when your kid gets beat up, or beats someone else up in self defense - is that wrong or right? I personally believe in absolute honesty (mostly ) with my daughter - it's the only way to teach her honesty. So file-sharing is explained like this (the truth, for me): I dl specific files to for specific reasons:

1. Single songs - I've already spent so much money in my life on CD's for one song, that it only makes sense - I'm not rich or stupid - however it appears single songs can now be purchased....

2. To find new music - single song rules apply - if I find an artist I really like, I buy their CD (eventually)

3. To build my library of public domain music - traditional, classical, dead artists (sometimes) etc.

4. TV shows have already made their money, and I only dl the odd thing - if it wasn't for all this new DVD shit it wouldn't matter- who cares

5. Same for films, as I very rarely dl film - I don't have a DVD burner yet, and VCD's won't play in my PS2 (Ispend too much time on my computer NFW am I watching full films on it except on the rare occasion.

6. As for books now that they are available, same as 2 - if I dig the stuff I'll buy it - when I read a book I want to read a BOOK.

I don't feel guilty about any of these things, so....

To me it's the same as swearing. I swear like a sailor - but NEVER, not once have I sworn around my daughter, because at her age, she will get in trouble for doing it, and she's too young to understand the "time and place" philosophy. That same rule applies to everything in parenting - if they can get in trouble for what you teach them, and are too young to understand the subjectivity - don't teach it to them. If they can make an objective decision, treat them as such - give them your reason and let them make their own decisions. At what age do you let your kids know it is okay to smoke pot, have sex? Base your decisions on their capacity to understand them. And if you think something could damage them, err on the side of caution. Kids are real easy to screw up, not so easy to fix. Just my 2 cents worth. Good Luck.