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Thread: Newsgroups!! Why do ISPs allow them?

  1. #1
    ExtraSharp's Avatar Poster BT Rep: +2
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    So I'm new to newsgroups, and I just discovered that my ISP has a newgroup server (is that what it is called?). After downloading Grabit agent, and entering my ISPs news server URL, I suddenly had a huge list of porn/movie/dvds available to me in my list of newsgroups. I couldn't believe it. Why would my ISP allow news from these groups? It seems like they are encouraging illegal file sharing? Its like there is a underground black market file exchange feature built in to my monthly ISP fees.

    I've read about the history of newsgroups, it seems to me they are kind of like the grandfather of RSS feeds. So why are they still around running rampant as file sharing groups?

  2. Newsgroups   -   #2
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    I dont know the proper answer to your question but here are some things i came up with:
    The costs of the service are allready calculated in your monthly payment, because not everyone uses this service its possible to let everyone pay (for example) 0.10 euro/dollar and dont loose any money on the service.

    Because the usenet aint a moderated community it isnt possible to filter for illegal content. They could dissable certain groups but this wouldnt solve the problem because ppl will start posting in different newsgroups.

    Another thing: Bandwith used within isp's own network is way less expensive then having to transfer the file from another isp. Because your isp hosts the server on its own network + all the leechers have to be with the same isp the bandwith used stays within the isp's network. The only problem is the mirroring of the files from provider to provider but this is 0.00001 % of the amount leeched as you can imagne. This could be the reason why they host their own service and dont want people to go somewhere else.

    Newsgroups are more similliar to forums then to rss feeds. NZB's are in fact the direct download rss links for usenet. Where do you thnk the name NEWS groups came from? People started sharing articles in so called groups which relate to the articles subject. Later on someone found a way to post attachments/files (binaries). Thats why there's a difference between servers in allowing binaries or being text only.

    (Longest post I ever made on a forum, I hope you guys get the point of my story)
    Last edited by geen; 01-19-2007 at 06:06 PM.

  3. Newsgroups   -   #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSharp View Post
    I suddenly had a huge list of porn/movie/dvds available to me in my list of newsgroups. I couldn't believe it. Why would my ISP allow news from these groups? It seems like they are encouraging illegal file sharing? Its like there is a underground black market file exchange feature built in to my monthly ISP fees.
    'Illegal' according to... what? You? 'Legal'? Anything you can think of that may be 'legal' to you, is 'illegal' somewhere on the planet, same in reverse. If you don't like usenet, find an ISP that doesn't have a news-server, which is the majority of ISP's in the U.S. You'll find that the price is identical, running an small usenet server (or jobbing it out) is so small a cost that you won't be saving much, if anything.

    Commercial quality news-servers run at least $15/month, if not more, or about double what dialup ISP's run. And most operate in the U.S., with the most 'restrictive' laws with most judges willing to burn the constitution if it'll advance rich interests like the MPAA. But ISP's and those commercial servers arn't quaking in their boots, far from it, as most of the 'laws' legality have yet to be tested against that constitution, which I suggest you read with a large attention paid to copyright issues; and the fact that virtually all the changes made (particularly in recent years) have been done with changes to the edges of that constitution, without actually AMDENDING the thing, as is required!

    Eventually, we will see a Betamax Vrs. MPAA showdown, but until then the forces that have made those changes want to sit back and use fear to 'keep people in line', rather than bring it to a head.

  4. Newsgroups   -   #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Beck38 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSharp View Post
    I suddenly had a huge list of porn/movie/dvds available to me in my list of newsgroups. I couldn't believe it. Why would my ISP allow news from these groups? It seems like they are encouraging illegal file sharing? Its like there is a underground black market file exchange feature built in to my monthly ISP fees.
    'Illegal' according to... what? You? 'Legal'? Anything you can think of that may be 'legal' to you, is 'illegal' somewhere on the planet, same in reverse. If you don't like usenet, find an ISP that doesn't have a news-server, which is the majority of ISP's in the U.S. You'll find that the price is identical, running an small usenet server (or jobbing it out) is so small a cost that you won't be saving much, if anything.

    Commercial quality news-servers run at least $15/month, if not more, or about double what dialup ISP's run. And most operate in the U.S., with the most 'restrictive' laws with most judges willing to burn the constitution if it'll advance rich interests like the MPAA. But ISP's and those commercial servers arn't quaking in their boots, far from it, as most of the 'laws' legality have yet to be tested against that constitution, which I suggest you read with a large attention paid to copyright issues; and the fact that virtually all the changes made (particularly in recent years) have been done with changes to the edges of that constitution, without actually AMDENDING the thing, as is required!

    Eventually, we will see a Betamax Vrs. MPAA showdown, but until then the forces that have made those changes want to sit back and use fear to 'keep people in line', rather than bring it to a head.


    He only ASKED why newsgroups had this stuff on it. I don't think that question is out of line at all. Especially for a newbie. How can he know unless he asks?

    The way you posted, you act like he had something against newsgroups, which is clearly NOT the case from what I have read so far.


    With the RIAA and MPAA running around trying to shut down ANY site that has to do with p2p, it is only natural that some may wonder why newsgroups themselves have not been targeted.
    Last edited by webe123; 01-20-2007 at 02:40 AM.

  5. Newsgroups   -   #5
    aa
    Last edited by overture2112; 07-13-2008 at 05:19 AM.

  6. Newsgroups   -   #6
    Broken's Avatar Obama Supporter
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    Many ISP's do not carry the alt. binaries newsgroups. The minority of ISP's that do offer binaries have short retention, and poor completion. If your ISP offers Usenet, it is more common that they only carry the text groups.

    Because there is some level of skill to using Usenet, and their is often monetary cost involved - the braindead masses, and kids without a way to pay have stayed away. The user base is small and dedicated.

    Usenet is the cockroach of the filesharing scene. They where around long before, and will be around long after every thing else.

  7. Newsgroups   -   #7
    ExtraSharp's Avatar Poster BT Rep: +2
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    Quote Originally Posted by webe123 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beck38 View Post

    'Illegal' according to... what? You? 'Legal'? Anything you can think of that may be 'legal' to you, is 'illegal' somewhere on the planet, same in reverse. If you don't like usenet, find an ISP that doesn't have a news-server, which is the majority of ISP's in the U.S. You'll find that the price is identical, running an small usenet server (or jobbing it out) is so small a cost that you won't be saving much, if anything.

    Commercial quality news-servers run at least $15/month, if not more, or about double what dialup ISP's run. And most operate in the U.S., with the most 'restrictive' laws with most judges willing to burn the constitution if it'll advance rich interests like the MPAA. But ISP's and those commercial servers arn't quaking in their boots, far from it, as most of the 'laws' legality have yet to be tested against that constitution, which I suggest you read with a large attention paid to copyright issues; and the fact that virtually all the changes made (particularly in recent years) have been done with changes to the edges of that constitution, without actually AMDENDING the thing, as is required!

    Eventually, we will see a Betamax Vrs. MPAA showdown, but until then the forces that have made those changes want to sit back and use fear to 'keep people in line', rather than bring it to a head.


    He only ASKED why newsgroups had this stuff on it. I don't think that question is out of line at all. Especially for a newbie. How can he know unless he asks?

    The way you posted, you act like he had something against newsgroups, which is clearly NOT the case from what I have read so far.


    With the RIAA and MPAA running around trying to shut down ANY site that has to do with p2p, it is only natural that some may wonder why newsgroups themselves have not been targeted.
    Thank you. I have nothing against newsgroups. I was just asking because I wasn't aware that they even existed until recently. Once I realized how the system works, and that it was provided to me rather directly by my ISP, I had to ask why. Thanks.

  8. Newsgroups   -   #8
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    Even usenet is becomming more mainstream, ive seen mom's downloading movies for their kids. I can imagine a novice pc user downloading a torrent but usenet is at least twice as hard to understand. Download a torrent and there you go, no need to configure your client, downloading par files, thinking about your retention etc.
    Usenet is becomming a common known way of dowloading, in about a year we will see if the majority of hardcore torrent users have given up their seedboxes and got an usenet account.

  9. Newsgroups   -   #9
    Broken's Avatar Obama Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by geen View Post
    Even usenet is becomming more mainstream, ive seen mom's downloading movies for their kids. I can imagine a novice pc user downloading a torrent but usenet is at least twice as hard to understand. Download a torrent and there you go, no need to configure your client, downloading par files, thinking about your retention etc.
    Usenet is becomming a common known way of dowloading, in about a year we will see if the majority of hardcore torrent users have given up their seedboxes and got an usenet account.
    The majority of BT users are to young to have a credit card, or too cheap to pay for Usenet.

  10. Newsgroups   -   #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Broken View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by geen View Post
    Even usenet is becomming more mainstream, ive seen mom's downloading movies for their kids. I can imagine a novice pc user downloading a torrent but usenet is at least twice as hard to understand. Download a torrent and there you go, no need to configure your client, downloading par files, thinking about your retention etc.
    Usenet is becomming a common known way of dowloading, in about a year we will see if the majority of hardcore torrent users have given up their seedboxes and got an usenet account.
    The majority of BT users are to young to have a credit card, or too cheap to pay for Usenet.

    Yeah, one or both of those reasons is how I look at it.

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