The first black Super Bowl coach

[Chip Monk]

It depends on which particular species of political correctness one wishes to adopt. It's quite cool to say "Huh it's no big deal, why are you making a fuss about this, you are being racist". Or one can say "Well done chaps, huzzah from breaking thro' that glass ceiling, you have forged the way for those to follow." However those who take that stance are accused of being racist and patronising.

Im my view history often makes more of these events than contemporary reporting. It does so because it can see what, if anything resulted from them.

I'm in the "huzzah" camp, but in an under-stated way.

[Busyman]

Conversely, we will also have the first black coach to lose a Super Bowl, and though I'd think the fact should be of little note, I'm sure some putz will mention it.

That's a little self-harsh. I don't think of you as a putz, merely a little clumsy with wordular context at times

===

I think this is a big deal for black folk in America. It is the same here in soccer because the proportional dearth of black managers in the top tier (indeed any tier) of professional football does rather stick out. If a black manager coached his team to the Premier League title, it would mean a great deal to current black football players who aspire to be a manager when they hang up their boots. Not so much youngsters because what teenager aspires to be a manager rather than a player.

Some outspoken black managers (like Paul Ince at Macclesfield) blame institutional racism but I can't attribute it to that. It was only 20-25 years ago that the England team had its first black player and now (proportionately, given the populace of England) there are more black players in the squad than white.

I think now a precident has been set, the floodgates will open and you'll see a lot more black coaches taking teams to the Superbowl. The mental barrier will be gone.

So, it is a big deal and the media are right to treat it as such.

I have to slightly disagree there about the lack institutional racism over here especially given the number of black football players in the league going pretty far back. However, over time people change, younger folks speak out that don't harbor old racism, and simple greed and hiring those best for the job win out.

@Skiz - you are clueless, man, and I mean that in a friendly kinda way.

[Mr JP Fugley]

However, over time people change, younger folks speak out that don't harbor old racism, and simple greed and hiring those best for the job win out.

Fucking good point. Owners want to win and to make money. So they buy the best players they can. The NBA is a brilliant example of that, what with all the powerful, tall black players dominating the sport.

I know there are other socio-economic factors re availability of courts etc, but that's more about how the black players get to be the best, not how they are treated once they get there.

Here's a thought. Is it possible that the acceptance of black people as sporting stars has had a huge positive effect in inter race relationships in the USA.

[Busyman]

The fact that you couldn't fathom it being a big deal to black folk makes you clueless....not necessarily black folk that you know but black folk.

Where did I say, "I couldn't fathom it"? I said it doesn't merit "acclaim".

Are you going to sleep better after the SB knowing a black coach, coached the winning team? That's not an achievement, it's a matter of time. I don't even think it worthy of discussion tbh.

Oh well, one less thing for you to worry about I guess. Better step up and start asking why we don't have any oriental coaches......... fucking racist NFL.

What's the proportion of oriental players in the NFL? Now what about blacks?

You don't see much hoopla over black coaches in the NHL, do you?

You wouldn't think discussion worthy cuz you are a clueless white person as opposed those that are white and not clueless.

In essence, and as I've said before, that's cool. You know your own little box of the world. However, there are those that know that the first black Superbowl coach is significant even if not significant too them....ironically some of them are brat soccer fans. Figure that.

[Busyman]

However, over time people change, younger folks speak out that don't harbor old racism, and simple greed and hiring those best for the job win out.

Fucking good point. Owners want to win and to make money. So they buy the best players they can. The NBA is a brilliant example of that, what with all the powerful, tall black players dominating the sport.

I know there are other socio-economic factors re availability of courts etc, but that's more about how the black players get to be the best, not how they are treated once they get there.

Here's a thought. Is it possible that the acceptance of black people as sporting stars has had a huge positive effect in inter race relationships in the USA.

....and the NBA even goes outside of the US like never before to get foreign talent, black, white, or asian.

Hire the best for the job. Greed > Institutional racism. Does an owner wanna win or be a losing racist prick?

[j2k4]

I'm still a bit non-plussed at the media's handling of this.

This is (no doubt) an achievement for both coaches, however, I think that for racism to ever begin to be considered outmoded, celebratory thought ought to be a bit muted, and more-so as time goes by.

Example:

Today, I heard the topic being discussed in terms of black pride, which term has always struck me as atonal, given the reaction one could count on for using the term white pride.

Isn't the whole thing about equality?

As I said before, I think merely noting the achievement should be sufficient; poring over it, dwelling on it, harping on it, have the effect of perpetuating that which we seek (or maybe not, I can't account for the like of Jesse and Al) to defeat racism and move beyond it.

[Mr JP Fugley]

I'm still a bit non-plussed at the media's handling of this.

This is (no doubt) an achievement for both coaches, however, I think that for racism to ever begin to be considered outmoded, celebratory thought ought to be a bit muted, and more-so as time goes by.

Example:

Today, I heard the topic being discussed in terms of black pride, which term has always struck me as atonal, given the reaction one could count on for using the term white pride.

No, no, no, no, no.

The celebration is that another brick from the racist wall has been knocked down. This is something to be celebrated. It is something for your people to be proud of, you have taken another step forward. It's not something that any particular section of your society should be proud of. It's something that you all should be proud of.

As manker said earlier, or at least implied, it is to be hoped that we are going the same way. It's hard to accept that the number of non-white soccer managers is as it should be.

With regard to your second point, the matter of black pride was being discussed with regard to a particular context. Black people rightly being proud of chaps achieving the ultimate within their chosen field. For the first time in that field.

White pride has entirely different connotations. Unless you were to use it in something like heavyweight boxing, where a phrase like "The Great White Hope", would be entirely acceptable. Well until reasonably recently, when a couple of big Russkies showed they could fight a bit.

[j2k4]

I'm still a bit non-plussed at the media's handling of this.

This is (no doubt) an achievement for both coaches, however, I think that for racism to ever begin to be considered outmoded, celebratory thought ought to be a bit muted, and more-so as time goes by.

Example:

Today, I heard the topic being discussed in terms of black pride, which term has always struck me as atonal, given the reaction one could count on for using the term white pride.

No, no, no, no, no.

The celebration is that another brick from the racist wall has been knocked down. This is something to be celebrated. It is something for your people to be proud of, you have taken another step forward. It's not something that any particular section of your society should be proud of. It's something that you all should be proud of.

As manker said earlier, or at least implied, it is to be hoped that we are going the same way. It's hard to accept that the number of non-white soccer managers is as it should be.

With regard to your second point, the matter of black pride was being discussed with regard to a particular context. Black people rightly being proud of chaps achieving the ultimate within their chosen field. For the first time in that field.

White pride has entirely different connotations. Unless you were to use it in something like heavyweight boxing, where a phrase like "The Great White Hope", would be entirely acceptable. Well until reasonably recently, when a couple of big Russkies showed they could fight a bit.

Who, then, will ever be able to say the last brick of the "racist wall" has been disposed of?

BTW-

The Russkies you mentioned are white, are they not.

My point is relative to the expression of celebration, but moreover the media's role in forming it.

To expand, we've had a few discussions about media bias here-about, and in this case, the media has demonstrated the tendency to "not let it go" after a question or two.

Just these past few weeks, we've had a snootful of Nancy Pelosi being feted as the first woman to hold the post of Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives.

Six-plus years ago, Colin Powell was named the first black Secretary of State.

He was succeeded a few years ago by a black lady, name of Condoleezza Rice, who recorded another "first".

Now, I pay as much attention to politics and media affairs as anyone.

I can claim a working knowledge of racial affairs as well.

I don't remember either of these two achievements being recognized to any extent.

If the media catches some, but misses or dismisses others, should we trust them to give any such milestones proper treatment?

[Mr JP Fugley]

Perhaps we should use Occum's Razor here and accept that, for media purposes and sales figures, Sport > Politics.

In short, how many Americans give a fuck about the first black <insert political position here> as opposed to Coach of a Superbowl Team. Now that's big news.

"The Russkies you mentioned are white, are they not." Was kind of my point, they eliminated the need for a "Great White Hope", which was never considered a racist phrase, within the confines of heavyweight boxing.

[Busyman™]

I'm still a bit non-plussed at the media's handling of this.

This is (no doubt) an achievement for both coaches, however, I think that for racism to ever begin to be considered outmoded, celebratory thought ought to be a bit muted, and more-so as time goes by.

Example:

Today, I heard the topic being discussed in terms of black pride, which term has always struck me as atonal, given the reaction one could count on for using the term white pride.

Isn't the whole thing about equality?

As I said before, I think merely noting the achievement should be sufficient; poring over it, dwelling on it, harping on it, have the effect of perpetuating that which we seek (or maybe not, I can't account for the like of Jesse and Al) to defeat racism and move beyond it.

As Skizo said in so many words, it's not even an achievement. It's some shit that just happened over time.

Tbh, most of my coworkers are black and while we are happy about it (the wins)....that's really the extent of it. I wouldn't go as so far as to say that we have this euphoria of black pride but we did root for Indy and Da Bears cuz of the black coaches.

Next time we'll root for the teams we really like.