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Thread: War Was A Good Thing...

  1. #21
    from talkingpointmemos.com:

    (June 1st, 2003 -- 11:46 PM EDT // link)
    My God, when they say down the memory hole, they ain't kiddin! There now seems to be a secret competition -- perhaps it was announced and I just didn't hear it -- for the Iraq-hawk who can come up with the most ingenious, Orwellian, up-is-down rewriting of the history of the year-long lead-up to the Iraq war. To this point, the strongest entries are those whispers out of the Pentagon, arguing that it was Colin Powell and the State Department who made them make such a big to-do about weapons of mass destruction.

    I take my hat off to those folks. That was a pretty solid entry. But when it comes to disingenuous agitprop you just never want to count Bill Safire out. And the old master comes in with a rock-solid entry in Monday morning's column.

    Safire begins by asking what the greatest intelligence failure of the war was? Something to do with WMD? Not at all. "It was the nearly unanimous opinion of the intelligence community, backed by the U.S. and British military, that the 50,000 elite soldiers of Saddam's well-trained, well-equipped Special Republican Guard would put up a fierce battle for Baghdad."

    This is true to a limited extent -- though the guys in uniform -- i.e., the ones who actually fight wars -- would argue that their aim was to make sure they weren't undergunned if the Republican Guard did fight to the death.

    But the contest entry comes next ...

    Happily, our best assessment was mistaken. Saddam's supposed diehards cut and ran. Though Baghdad's power and water were cut off, civilians were spared and our losses were even fewer than in Gulf War I.
    What if our planners had believed Kurdish leaders who predicted that Saddam's super-loyalists would quickly collapse? We would have sent fewer combat troops and more engineers, civilian administrators and military police. But the C.I.A. and the Pentagon had no way of being certain that the information about the Republican Guard's poor morale and weak discipline provided by Kurds and Iraqi opposition leaders was accurate.

    In other words, the lack of preparation for post-war reconstruction and the shortage of nation-builders is the fault of the CIA and the Joint Staff! If Tommy Franks and Eric Shinseki and the rest of them hadn't been such whiners, Doug Feith would have been able to flood the place with MPs, bridge builders, Arabic-speakers and a whole tribe of Jerry Bremer clones! Who knew!
    I think Safire is going to run away with this one.

    -- Josh Marshall

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #22
    Tikibonbon's Avatar It'll Get Ya Drunk!
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    and besides, if it wasn't for scottish wars, we never woulda had the chance to get bored while watching braveheart!
    http://jerome.galica.free.fr/dc%20comics/Green%20Lantern/GreenLantern_ION.gif

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #23
    myfiles3000 quoted a Washington Post story:

    KRAKOW, Poland, May 30 -- President Bush, citing two trailers that U.S. intelligence agencies have said were probably used as mobile biological weapons labs, said U.S. forces in Iraq have "found the weapons of mass destruction" that were the United States' primary justification for going to war.
    Yup, pretty flimsy. And yet, I'm a bit amazed at the current media hoopla on Bush/Blair ... with everyone lambasting them because no WMD have been found. Imagine if we'd sent astronauts to the moon and, a third of the way there, the media is yelling, "Hey, where's that moon landing you promised?" There are 900 sites (at least) to be checked ... and only 200-300 of them have been checked so far. And, it only takes ONE find out of those remaining 600-700 sites to make a lot of people start eating crow.

    True, it's possible that no WMD will ever be discovered. But frankly, the media is behaving like a bunch of children on vacation, taunting their parents in the front seat with:



    I guess "patience is a virtue" is an unknown axiom to the world of journalism.

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #24
    clocker's Avatar Shovel Ready
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    Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@3 June 2003 - 18:31


    I guess "patience is a virtue" is an unknown axiom to the world of journalism.
    And a suitable waiting period before the question can be reasonably asked would be?
    If you insist on performing slight-of-hand with the facts doesn't the audience have a valid expectation of a payoff?
    We sat through the lead-in.
    We got the razzle dazzle.
    We were shocked and awed.
    Now show us the rabbit.
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #25
    MagicNakor's Avatar On the Peripheral
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    Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@4 June 2003 - 01:31
    ...True, it's possible that no WMD will ever be discovered. But frankly, the media is behaving like a bunch of children on vacation...
    I doubt that there'd be so much carping about the non-existance of the WMD if the US hadn't based its entire reason to invade Iraq on the very concrete evidence that Saddam Hussein had these WMD.

    things are quiet until hitler decides he'd like to invade russia
    so, he does
    the russians are like "OMG WTF D00DZ, STOP TKING"
    and the germans are still like "omg ph34r n00bz"
    the russians fall back, all the way to moscow
    and then they all begin h4xing, which brings on the russian winter
    the germans are like "wtf, h4x"
    -- WW2 for the l33t

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #26
    clocker wrote:

    And a suitable waiting period before the question can be reasonably asked would be?
    At least as long as America's detractors were willing to wait for Hans Blix to complete the same job.

    MagicNakor wrote:

    I doubt that there'd be so much carping about the non-existance of the WMD if the US hadn't based its entire reason to invade Iraq on the very concrete evidence that Saddam Hussein had these WMD.
    Well, as I told clocker in another forum, I'm glad we went in ... but sad we went in for THAT reason.

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #27
    i've never heard the 300 of 900 sites figure before, but it sounds at the very least like spin to me. in any event, they have 2000 special forces soldiers on the ground for nearly 8 weeks now without a thing. just how long do they need, given the supposedly overwhelming evidence? plus the satellite imagery and on-ground intelligence? wouldn't there be ONE former insider that would blow the whistle? i'm sure the coalition is waving all kinds of carrots around for any snitches willing to come forward...h

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #28
    clocker's Avatar Shovel Ready
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    Does asking the question "Where are the WMD" automatically make one a "
    detractor"?
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #29
    clocker wrote:

    Does asking the question "Where are the WMD" automatically make one a "detractor"?
    Nope. Didn't say that. Just saying that what we're witnessing now is a turnabout. The US was lambasted for not giving Blix more time ... and now is being lambasted by those unwilling to give us the same amount of time they were willing to give Blix.

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #30
    clocker's Avatar Shovel Ready
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    The difference being of course, that Blix wasn't firing 750 Tomahawk missiles into Iraq, nor putting thousands of troops on the ground.
    We invaded on the premise that not only did these weapons exist but that they posed a clear and present danger not only to us, but the world.
    So I'll wait a week.
    But I wanna see the rabbit soon.
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

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