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Thread: Shock And Awe Versus Myfiles3000

  1. #1
    In response to a posting from Shock and Awe on 21 May 2003 - 05:37, I called him a snot-faced dipshit. Then he called me an idiot pig dipshit.

    If i were a more noble man, i wouldn't bother with this, because its not fair to pick on people so much weaker than I. But i am petty and argumentative. So i post.

    In response to my criticism, SA said:

    "You think I laugh at men killed in battle? No I don't. I rejoice and give thanks to God that these evil men serving an evil regime are dead. The whole world has seen the atrocities these men have wrought on their people and humanity yet PIGS like you still defend them and call them honorable! Yeah I Celebrate the death of those pigs! Lets set the record straight too. I never laughed at those evil pigs that thankfully lost their lives in battle. I was laughing(you idiot )at the methods!"

    First, its obvious that the point of SA's original post was to ridicule the Iraqi soldiers, to laugh at them, to gloat at their defeat, like a sore winner. Its not an honourable thing to do, and it came as no surprise to me that SA served time in the armed forces, given what i consider to be his disregard of human life. Not that i have a problem with soldiers per se...its just that such an attitude is highly correlated with men in uniform.
    But don't take my word for it -- let the 5 smiley faces in the original post speak for themselves.

    In many ways, this is the classic Ugly American: the worlds strongest military power, by far, attacking a country which didn't stand a chance, due in small part to the sanctions spearheaded by the victor on the vanquished for the preceding 10 years. Then gloating about the victory, as though it were a fair fight, as though there was any other outcome possible. As far as I'm concerned, the operation in Iraq should be treated like a bone-marrow extract: a painful, and (possibly, in the case of Iraq) necessary operation for the long-term health of the corpus. It's not something to laugh about. Like I said, sore winner.

    Second, i don't find at all convincing the distinction SA later made between laughing at the Iraqi's and the methods. I think he's backtracking.

    Third, I wonder whether it ever occured to SA that many of the Iraqi soldiers were compelled to fight on pain of death - of themselves, or their loved ones. As he so adamantly insists, after all, this was an "evil" regime.

    Fourth, does SA really operate day-to-day with such a reductionist perspective of Good-Evil, Black-White? Does he believe that the complexities of reality can be so easily compartmentalized into polar opposites? Does he appreciate the concept of "shades of grey"? Is he willing to concede misdeeds of his own country?

    Or is he just a stooge?

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #2
    kAb's Avatar Poster
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    i'm confused... you contradict yourself...



    the worlds strongest military power, by far, attacking a country which didn't stand a chance
    so you get all huffy and puffy about the U.S. attacking Iraq.

    then..


    I wonder whether it ever occured to SA that many of the Iraqi soldiers were compelled to fight on pain of death - of themselves, or their loved ones. As he so adamantly insists, after all, this was an "evil" regime
    well yeah, many of them WERE forced to fight by penalty of family deaths and thus this makes it an evil regime, why the quotes? " "


    so are you pro-iraqi war or against it???

    edit: spell

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #3
    Originally posted by kAb@25 May 2003 - 06:02
    i'm confused... you contradict yourself...



    the worlds strongest military power, by far, attacking a country which didn't stand a chance
    so you get all huffy and puffy about the U.S. attacking Iraq.

    then..


    I wonder whether it ever occured to SA that many of the Iraqi soldiers were compelled to fight on pain of death - of themselves, or their loved ones. As he so adamantly insists, after all, this was an "evil" regime
    well yeah, many of them WERE forced to fight by penalty of family deaths and thus this makes it an evil regime, why the quotes? " "


    so are you pro-iraqi war or against it???

    edit: spell
    Actually, i didn't contradict myself, so the source of your confusion must lie elsewhere. Just because iraq didn't have fighting chance doesn't necessarily mean I object to it (after all, if Iraq actually did present a credible risk of launching WMD, then by all means, bombs away). But that is irrelevant to the current discussion -- nothing i've just said today should give a right-thinking person the idea that i fundamentally object to the invasion.

    What i objected to was Shock and Awe's distasteful, ungentlemanly manner. further clarification available upon request, but i would advise some of you to read my posts more carefully.

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #4
    myfiles3000 wrote:

    In response to a posting from Shock and Awe on 21 May 2003 - 05:37, I called him a snot-faced dipshit. Then he called me an idiot pig dipshit.
    Well, at least we know who started the name-calling.

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #5

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #6
    clocker's Avatar Shovel Ready
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    Edit: moved to "What Really Happened" at Myfiles request.anything to oblige...
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #7
    Rat Faced's Avatar Broken
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    Originally posted by myfiles3000@25 May 2003 - 12:28
    the plot thickens...



    edit: source: http://www.foreignpolicy-infocus.org/paper...oney/fig1-1.gif
    I think that includes the UN.......


    So THATS why it dont get paid often.............


    :-" o

    An It Harm None, Do What You Will

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #8
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    Originally posted by clocker@25 May 2003 - 13:19

    source:The Military Balance 2001/2002 Edition
    The International Institute for Strategic Studies

    ok, so now what?
    As the USA has 1/2 of the worlds GDP, thats a rather biased graph.

    You could spend 1/2 the % GDP of other 'western' countries and still have a military force greater than the rest of the Western Hemishere put together.

    As the GDP for the USA is so huge, the % GDP on defense should be very small, and still be very much greater than anyone else (Look at the Bar Chart).......then see how many % points you could cut and STILL be the greatest superpower in the world.

    That alone might pay for a Universal Health Service.......

    An It Harm None, Do What You Will

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #9
    Originally posted by clocker@25 May 2003 - 14:19
    ok, so now what?
    now i think we're way off-topic. i understood the general topic of discussion to be the role of the USA in world affairs, so non-american military spending doesn't strike me as helpful. But i can understand why yanks get alarmed at such graphs -- a little bit like staring into the crystal ball and realizing that the UK won't be the only western superpower wallowing in relative decline as another power assumes the throne.

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #10
    i realized i posted some of the charts to the wrong thread. Sorry, i meant for this to be just about the mudslinging between SA and I. if i get a chance, i'll repost to another thread.

    anyway, i'll continue...

    My Files
    You sound like your suffering from I wish I was as good as America syndrome?
    Are you Gay? You seem to be very well acquainted with Iraqi manhood.
    Not that there's anything wrong with it.
    When I read this, and for hours afterward, I really wasn't sure whether SA was serious, or just assuming the stereotypical meat head american role to taunt me. I was thinking, "could this guy seriously believe that I'm *jealous* of the USA? did he just ask if i was gay? is this all a ploy or what? No, he must be dumbing down on purpose, just to get a rise out of me."

    then, in response to my (facetious) suggestion that, in the absence of any real battle experience perhaps our resident sailor had participated in live fire exercises in Oklahoma, SA said:

    Btw have you looked at a map lately?  I don't think that anyone knowing so little about geography should be making statements that are geo political in nature.
    "Wow, i thought to myself, this guy is pulling out all the stops to play up this daft bit, he couldn't possibly have taken the oklahoma comment seriously...surely, as a former navy guy he realized it was a joke, as well as a reference to one of the ships sunk at pearl harbour...right?"

    well, i think i've covered most of what i wanted to say.

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