mostly harmless
According to a "texter-inner" on the BBC Question Time programme last night, the helicopter in question had had to return to HMS Cornwall due to lack of fuel.
This could have been a falsehood however, because I have not been able to verify the story.
en(un)lightened
It seems Iran cares little for the Geneva Conventions.
How can that be.
"Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."
-Mark Twain
On the Peripheral
Aren't they "quaint."
things are quiet until hitler decides he'd like to invade russia
so, he does
the russians are like "OMG WTF D00DZ, STOP TKING"
and the germans are still like "omg ph34r n00bz"
the russians fall back, all the way to moscow
and then they all begin h4xing, which brings on the russian winter
the germans are like "wtf, h4x"
-- WW2 for the l33t
there is no god
Do we still have the right to lecture about showing captives on TV being against the Geneva convention? I mean all they have to point to is rendition, abu grabass, gitmo, torture, Saddam in his underwear............... How do we justify claiming the high ground anymore?
it’s an election with no Democrats, in one of the whitest states in the union, where rich candidates pay $35 for your votes. Or, as Republicans call it, their vision for the future.
en(un)lightened
Who is "claiming the high ground".Originally Posted by vidcc
Are we precluded from pointing this treatment out, especially when it applies to uniformed members of an established regular armed service sailing under a British flag, and not (unclaimed) terrorists.
"Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."
-Mark Twain
there is no god
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...047128,00.htmlCall that humiliation?
No hoods. No electric shocks. No beatings. These Iranians clearly are a very uncivilised bunch
Terry Jones
Saturday March 31, 2007
The Guardian
I share the outrage expressed in the British press over the treatment of our naval personnel accused by Iran of illegally entering their waters. It is a disgrace. We would never dream of treating captives like this - allowing them to smoke cigarettes, for example, even though it has been proven that smoking kills. And as for compelling poor servicewoman Faye Turney to wear a black headscarf, and then allowing the picture to be posted around the world - have the Iranians no concept of civilised behaviour? For God's sake, what's wrong with putting a bag over her head? That's what we do with the Muslims we capture: we put bags over their heads, so it's hard to breathe. Then it's perfectly acceptable to take photographs of them and circulate them to the press because the captives can't be recognised and humiliated in the way these unfortunate British service people are.
It is also unacceptable that these British captives should be made to talk on television and say things that they may regret later. If the Iranians put duct tape over their mouths, like we do to our captives, they wouldn't be able to talk at all. Of course they'd probably find it even harder to breathe - especially with a bag over their head - but at least they wouldn't be humiliated.
And what's all this about allowing the captives to write letters home saying they are all right? It's time the Iranians fell into line with the rest of the civilised world: they should allow their captives the privacy of solitary confinement. That's one of the many privileges the US grants to its captives in Guantánamo Bay.
The true mark of a civilised country is that it doesn't rush into charging people whom it has arbitrarily arrested in places it's just invaded. The inmates of Guantánamo, for example, have been enjoying all the privacy they want for almost five years, and the first inmate has only just been charged. What a contrast to the disgraceful Iranian rush to parade their captives before the cameras!
What's more, it is clear that the Iranians are not giving their British prisoners any decent physical exercise. The US military make sure that their Iraqi captives enjoy PT. This takes the form of exciting "stress positions", which the captives are expected to hold for hours on end so as to improve their stomach and calf muscles. A common exercise is where they are made to stand on the balls of their feet and then squat so that their thighs are parallel to the ground. This creates intense pain and, finally, muscle failure. It's all good healthy fun and has the bonus that the captives will confess to anything to get out of it.
And this brings me to my final point. It is clear from her TV appearance that servicewoman Turney has been put under pressure. The newspapers have persuaded behavioural psychologists to examine the footage and they all conclude that she is "unhappy and stressed".
What is so appalling is the underhand way in which the Iranians have got her "unhappy and stressed". She shows no signs of electrocution or burn marks and there are no signs of beating on her face. This is unacceptable. If captives are to be put under duress, such as by forcing them into compromising sexual positions, or having electric shocks to their genitals, they should be photographed, as they were in Abu Ghraib. The photographs should then be circulated around the civilised world so that everyone can see exactly what has been going on.
As Stephen Glover pointed out in the Daily Mail, perhaps it would not be right to bomb Iran in retaliation for the humiliation of our servicemen, but clearly the Iranian people must be made to suffer - whether by beefing up sanctions, as the Mail suggests, or simply by getting President Bush to hurry up and invade, as he intends to anyway, and bring democracy and western values to the country, as he has in Iraq.
· Terry Jones is a film director, actor and Python
www.terry-jones.net
it’s an election with no Democrats, in one of the whitest states in the union, where rich candidates pay $35 for your votes. Or, as Republicans call it, their vision for the future.
It's a bad situation at the right time for everyone.
- US/Brits are looking for more solid foundations to get at Iran, one way or another. This, on top of the nuclear issue, is starting to add up, rightly or wrongly.
- Iran needs to show they follow some rules, thus if someone enters their space, they are doing what is under the book, like everyone else would.
- Iran wants to show they are humane and open to diplomacy, and show they are being bullied.
I did find it interesting that the Brits have shown GPS mappings from the Cornwall and the suspect ship. Iran used a Flash presentation...and got their coordinates wrong twice. Either they lack decent "fake" software, or they got it wrong, or they aren't lieing at all.
I was in Iran 2 months ago working on a solar power project, ironically. I had to travel to many places many foreigners don't go. It's a really beautiful place. I was treated with the best hospitality, though they knew i was English. It's a rich country, and the infrastructure etc is very advanced, not the mud huts and cave dwellers we are led to believe. Hell of a lot better than Leeds!! I wasn't hindered in my movement. My work, although it wa read before i left, was left uncensored, although i criticised Iran and several of it's policies.
Maybe the Iran/British/US etc governments are a bunch of pricks, collectively. The Iranian people are good, kind people, like us. They have kids who want to go to univversity, get good jobs, and live in peace. I hope to God we can solve this in ways which won't see their people dying.
Israel used the kidnap of a soldier as the final straw recently. The international world was quiet at first, then loudly condemned the continous brutality and "you did this, so i'll do that" mentality. I hope the "Allies" were taking note. More of this aggression, and i will sadly start to believe that we ae the terrorists. Then, is democracy soooo good? Is that what we want to print around the world?
Finally, sanctions are fine. But, Iran's economical and social development has been rolliing and gathering momentum. How long will Iran be expected to do this with sanctions that can undo the GOOD work they have done? They will find ways to continue their development, be it making up deficits with trades to non-favorable nations, or lashing out.
I'm not saying Iran are angels. But nor are we, and we are the ones that startd this prodding.
en(un)lightened
The subject was (for the moment, at least) whether Iran was flouting the Geneva Conventions in it's treatment of the British sailors.
Do we avoid the question by arguing whether they are excused from any violations that do not exceed those alleged against the coalition, and do we furthermore disregard the fact the sailors are personnel of the precise type referred to in the Conventions.
"Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."
-Mark Twain
.
When was war declared?
It is my understanding that they are being held for illegal entry, a civilian matter, not as prisoners of war. The Geneva Convention does not apply.
.Political correctness is based on the principle that it's possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
en(un)lightened
Ah, but then wars are declared on/between nations, a distinction that is given short-shrift when extending the Conventions to terrorists, who clearly are not covered, either.When was war declared?
It is my understanding that they are being held for illegal entry, a civilian matter, not as prisoners of war. The Geneva Convention does not apply.
If terrorists are covered, so are the sailors.
"Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."
-Mark Twain
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks