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Thread: Wales stubs out smoking in public places

  1. #1
    JPaul's Avatar Fat Secret Agent
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    http://www.virginmedia.com/news/uk/u...toryid=5498920

    Smoking in public places in Wales has become illegal ahead of the English ban in July.

    Any smokers caught lighting up now face a £50 fine and the Assembly Government has embarked on an advertising and publicity campaign to warn people about the ban.

    English smokers will not have to stub out their cigarettes until July 1 and a backbench bid to delay the Welsh ban and bring both sides of the border into line was defeated in the Assembly earlier this year.

    Ministers say the three smoke-free months could save 100 lives as passive smoking kills 400 people a year in Wales.

    Wales was the first part of the UK to call for a ban, but because of the Assembly's limited law-making powers it had to wait until Parliament passed legislation last year.

    Landlords and managers who do not display adequate no-smoking signs will be fined £200. They will face a fine of up to £2,500 if they allow people to smoke on their premises.

    Anyone issued with a penalty notice can challenge it in court in the same way as a speeding ticket.

    Health minister Brian Gibbons said: "I would be shocked if there is anybody who this is likely to affect in Wales who doesn't know that the ban is coming in."

    The Scottish Executive heralded its year-old ban as a success last week when it said there had been more than 46,000 attempts to quit smoking since it began.
    I've already said my piece re the ban in Scotland. In short, I think that it's a good thing, however I do see arguments on both sides.

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #2
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    Ministers say the three smoke-free months could save 100 lives as passive smoking kills 400 people a year in Wales.
    Anyone want to bet that there's absolutely no proof to back that up?

    How many jobs and businesses are going to be lost over a ban that few wanted at this level? Most people expected a compromise situation, with enforced smoke free areas. Once again though this government has shown that it is really just a movement for bullies. I'm hardly surprised at those I find to be its backers.

    The Irish are now finding many pub closures due to lack of business. Where are all the people who said they avoided pubs because of the smoky atmosphere? Were they invented, or simply liars?
    Last edited by lynx; 04-02-2007 at 11:21 PM.
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  3. The Drawing Room   -   #3
    Busyman™'s Avatar Use Logic Or STFU!
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    Is it possible to make private clubs for smokers?

    I don't like catching sidestream smoke but I think that banning it in bars is ridiculous.

    I can see it now, some poor owner sets up a private club and some fuckhead non-smoker claims he should be let in and basically tries to close the place with legal action.

    Hell make bar owners have to outfit their place with some overly great ventilation system. It's better than them closing the fuck down.

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #4
    vidcc's Avatar there is no god
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynx View Post
    Ministers say the three smoke-free months could save 100 lives as passive smoking kills 400 people a year in Wales.
    Anyone want to bet that there's absolutely no proof to back that up?
    I'm guessing it's an average figure taken from documented statistics, however with something like smoking in public it's not purely a personal choice. The smoker gets to decide if he wants to take the risk, the non smoker has the choice made for him.

    You absolutely have the right to smoke but others have the right not to share your smoke and seeing as they are not the ones inflicting their habit on others I don't see why they should be the ones that have to stay at home to avoid it.

    I'm sure someone will bring up car pollution etc etc into the argument but that doesn't reduce the effects of passive smoking.

    it’s an election with no Democrats, in one of the whitest states in the union, where rich candidates pay $35 for your votes. Or, as Republicans call it, their vision for the future.

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #5
    Busyman™'s Avatar Use Logic Or STFU!
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    I think there should be smoking bars and non-smoking ones.

    If you have the right to fuck off if you don't wanna deal with the smoke.

    I think the market should choose.

    Obviously there's seems to be a bigger market for smoking pubs than non-smoking ones.

    The only thing that seems to have been achieved is shutting down an establishment and that's pretty fucked up.

    So much for one's right to not have to be subjected to sidestream smoke in a bar.

    Now the bar is gone. Nice going. Now you can't subject yourself to the bar.

    I think (and have always thought) the bigger picture is that the government just wants to stamp out smoking altogether and this is their fucked up way of going about it.

    Why not outlaw it outright and grandfather cigs for current smokers? Shirley lives'll be saved. There'll be tons less new smokers and those that want cigs that are not grandfathered will be driven to an underground market.

    It's funny how the US has big court cases about something and then other countries follow suit with action.

    Phillip Morris and Microsoft spring to mind.

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #6
    vidcc's Avatar there is no god
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    Traditional bars have been losing business for years before smoking bans started. Higher prices for beer and changes in the way people socialise in general are all factors. To place all the blame on smoking bans is a bit unfair.

    Sure some smokers will stop going to bars, that's their choice. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. My father stopped going to his local pub (he only ever went on a Sunday afternoon anyway) because they installed a TV and had the football on. His view was that he left the house to have a drink with some friends and to get away from football and TV in general. I know some people that will only go into bars that have the game showing.

    how many smokers would appreciate going to a movie theater and have the person next to them talk on their phone through the film?

    The onus is on the person that causes the interference not the one suffering it.

    it’s an election with no Democrats, in one of the whitest states in the union, where rich candidates pay $35 for your votes. Or, as Republicans call it, their vision for the future.

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #7
    Busyman™'s Avatar Use Logic Or STFU!
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    Quote Originally Posted by vidcc View Post
    Traditional bars have been losing business for years before smoking bans started. Higher prices for beer and changes in the way people socialise in general are all factors. To place all the blame on smoking bans is a bit unfair.

    Sure some smokers will stop going to bars, that's their choice. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. My father stopped going to his local pub (he only ever went on a Sunday afternoon anyway) because they installed a TV and had the football on. His view was that he left the house to have a drink with some friends and to get away from football and TV in general. I know some people that will only go into bars that have the game showing.

    how many smokers would appreciate going to a movie theater and have the person next to them talk on their phone through the film?

    The onus is on the person that causes the interference not the one suffering it.

    Mmk. Explain the bar closings after the smoking ban then.

    Whatever business they had, shrunk the fuck all.

    What would you think about a private smoking only bar? Do you think you have the right to demand membership and then complain about the smoke?

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #8
    vidcc's Avatar there is no god
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busyman™ View Post


    Mmk. Explain the bar closings after the smoking ban then.

    Whatever business they had, shrunk the fuck all.

    What would you think about a private smoking only bar? Do you think you have the right to demand membership and then complain about the smoke?
    Some bars will lose patronage but as i explained smoking would be just one among many reasons. I would guess that the bars that fell after the bans weren't doing so well before. I know people that prefer to drink at home because they can buy beer cheaper from walmart and don't have to worry about drinking too much.
    I remember going into a bar about ten years ago that was the only non smoking bar in the area, it was packed and frankly hard to get to the bar through the crowd. The other bars in the area although not empty were not exactly overflowing.

    The complaint that the bars are not suddenly filling up with non smokers that didn't go out before could be because maybe, just maybe those people don't go to bars anyway or the bars are not set up in a way that attracts them.

    I would have no problem with member only bars allowing smoking, but if it's open to the general public they should go by the sae rules that apply to all other public places. The ban is public places, not just bars.
    Last edited by vidcc; 04-03-2007 at 03:03 AM.

    it’s an election with no Democrats, in one of the whitest states in the union, where rich candidates pay $35 for your votes. Or, as Republicans call it, their vision for the future.

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by vidcc View Post
    The complaint that the bars are not suddenly filling up with non smokers that didn't go out before could be because maybe, just maybe those people don't go to bars anyway or the bars are not set up in a way that attracts them.
    The whole point is that many of the people who have been pushing for a ban in bars have stated that it is the reason they don't frequent those bars.

    The logical follow up is that once they've got their ban they would start to frequent those bars that they previously avoided. However they don't crawl out from under their stones which just proves that their initial objections were false.
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  10. The Drawing Room   -   #10
    JPaul's Avatar Fat Secret Agent
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynx View Post
    Once again though this government has shown that it is really just a movement for bullies. I'm hardly surprised at those I find to be its backers.


    Indeed, stopping one group of people killing another because they chose to poison themselves. That's bullying.

    Which Government btw. The Westminster one, the Welsh one or the Scottish One. Or maybe the Irish. Don't you just hate it when a small group bullies a large one and forces their desires on them.

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