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View Poll Results: should hate crimes include sexuality ?

Voters
9. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes there is a need

    4 44.44%
  • no there is no need, but keep the present categories

    3 33.33%
  • there should be no hate crime laws at all

    2 22.22%
  • the laws should go further to include more categories

    0 0%
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Thread: Hate crimes

  1. #1
    vidcc's Avatar there is no god
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    The house has passed a bill that would extend "hate crimes" This bill extends coverage to those who are victims of crime based on sexual orientation, gender identification, or disability. The senate looks like it will pass their version.

    “federal laws against certain categories of hate crimes have been on the books since 1969, and now cover cases where people or property are targeted on grounds of race, religion, color or national origin. The House measure would add sexual orientation, gender and gender identity and disability to the list. It also budgets $10 million over the next two years to supplement local authorities in prosecuting of hate crimes, and allows federal officials to participate in investigations.
    source

    Bush has vowed to veto the bill.

    It has been described by opponents (those that find homosexuality offensive) as making thought a crime and could make criminals out of church preachers (or whatever title the religion uses) Which is actually not the case at all because a crime has to be committed. Saying homosexuality is immoral or such like doesn't come close.

    So should sexual orientation be added to the federal (different from state) hate crime laws

    poll on it's way
    Last edited by vidcc; 05-06-2007 at 05:40 PM.

    it’s an election with no Democrats, in one of the whitest states in the union, where rich candidates pay $35 for your votes. Or, as Republicans call it, their vision for the future.

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #2
    Skiz's Avatar (_8(I)
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    Unless I'm mistaken, isn't the veto primarily because this would cost millions in federal money to cover what the state and local laws already do?



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  3. The Drawing Room   -   #3
    vidcc's Avatar there is no god
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizo View Post
    Unless I'm mistaken, isn't the veto primarily because this would cost millions in federal money to cover what the state and local laws already do?
    From this president??????????

    IF that was the case why in all the years the republican held both houses and the presidency didn't they repeal the hate crime laws altogether? They had the votes.........

    BTW there is a difference between a hate crime and a generic assault.


    Edit: I forgot to make it a public poll (showing names) Did you vote no need but keep the present caterories?
    Last edited by vidcc; 05-06-2007 at 07:00 PM.

    it’s an election with no Democrats, in one of the whitest states in the union, where rich candidates pay $35 for your votes. Or, as Republicans call it, their vision for the future.

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #4
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    Quote Originally Posted by vidcc View Post
    BTW there is a difference between a hate crime and a generic assault.
    There is a difference between theft and murder.

    There is a difference between littering and rape.

    There is a difference between perjury and kidnapping.

    BTW-what is a "generic assault"?

    Hate crimes legislation of any type is utterly stupid (there's that word again).

    Something else:

    Can a Muslim in the United States be convicted of jihad by committing a crime against a Christian, and would you call that a hate crime?

    That last question is not rhetorical; I would honestly like an answer.
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #5
    vidcc's Avatar there is no god
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    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by vidcc View Post
    BTW there is a difference between a hate crime and a generic assault.
    There is a difference between theft and murder.

    There is a difference between littering and rape.

    There is a difference between perjury and kidnapping.

    A hate crime is different than a simple murder or assault as it incites fear into a specific community. If a group of KKK members came into your community and lynched an African-American man this would incite fear among African-Americans. Similarly, if a Neo-Nazi spray paints a swastika on a synagogue this would incite fear into the Jewish community. An essential part of our judicial system is to ensure public safety and maintain public order. A hate crime affects more than just the one person who gets physically harmed -- it provokes fear into an entire community. That is the difference.




    The only persuasive argument I've seen is given in the bill (Sec 2.2 and 2.5). Basically, if you attack someone because they belong to a specific group, you've also (negatively) affected that group. In any crime, those directly connected to the victim will be affected. If the crime is motivated due to hatred of a group, everyone in that group is affected, not just those with a direct connection to the victim. Since the effects are farther reaching, it makes sense to me that the crime would be considered more severe.


    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post
    BTW-what is a "generic assault"?
    A random attack such as assaulting someone in a bar because they looked at your woman (as an example only and not all encompassing)

    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post
    Hate crimes legislation of any type is utterly stupid (there's that word again).
    see above

    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post
    Something else:

    Can a Muslim in the United States be convicted of jihad by committing a crime against a Christian, and would you call that a hate crime?

    That last question is not rhetorical; I would honestly like an answer.
    If it is shown that the reason the Muslim did it was because the victim is a Christian then yes it's absolutely a hate crime and is already covered in the present hate crime legislation. I am unaware if there is a specific crime of "jihad" with which one can be charged in the United states

    it’s an election with no Democrats, in one of the whitest states in the union, where rich candidates pay $35 for your votes. Or, as Republicans call it, their vision for the future.

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #6
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    If the perpetrator of an offense is prosecuted and fined/incarcerated or otherwise penalized for his trespass, that is sufficient.

    Hate crime penalties are stupid, and that is all there is to it.

    To even contemplate more of the same is the height of time-wasting, and there is no argument capable of lessening the unremitting idiocy of the endeavor.
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #7
    vidcc's Avatar there is no god
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    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post
    If the perpetrator of an offense is prosecuted and fined/incarcerated or otherwise penalized for his trespass, that is sufficient.

    Hate crime penalties are stupid, and that is all there is to it.

    To even contemplate more of the same is the height of time-wasting, and there is no argument capable of lessening the unremitting idiocy of the endeavor.
    So because you disagree then there should be no debate and the subject has no validity

    Intent is a huge part of the prosecution process. We have different degrees of murder for example and as such the penalty is higher for some murders than others.
    You obviously think that intent should have nothing to do with the severity of the sentence.

    edit:

    Also making it federal protects the victims that suffer in bigotsville as much as the ones where that sort of thing is not given the "well perhaps they shouldn't have done it but we can understand why" treatment
    Last edited by vidcc; 05-06-2007 at 10:46 PM.

    it’s an election with no Democrats, in one of the whitest states in the union, where rich candidates pay $35 for your votes. Or, as Republicans call it, their vision for the future.

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #8
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    Quote Originally Posted by vidcc View Post
    So because you disagree then there should be no debate and the subject has no validity.
    Yeah.

    Like Global Warming that way.
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #9
    phrenzy's Avatar Baked BT Rep: +10BT Rep +10
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    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by vidcc View Post
    So because you disagree then there should be no debate and the subject has no validity.
    Yeah.

    Like Global Warming that way.

    Somehow that made me laugh..

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #10
    SHUVT's Avatar Poster BT Rep: +30BT Rep +30BT Rep +30BT Rep +30BT Rep +30BT Rep +30
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    So what your saying is... if I call a woman a Bitch before back handing her, it is no longer asault it is a hate crime? This is just one more ridiculous thing that will waste tons of money and clog the entire juducial system with so called hate crimes, everytime someone gets there ass beat or gets looked at funny.
    I haven't taken a beating like that since I opened my first issue of Hustler!
    The World is a Sick Place and I'm a Happy Guy!

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