Lebanon, Israel, Palestine etc...what is needed?

[jimbo12345]

What is needed to stop all this kiling and hatred, from all of us?
Is it resolvable?
How? Why not?

(excuse me if i missed/added too many countries/groups...not soo clued up in such matters, and confuses the hell out of me.)

[tralalala]

Rationalism, and non-extremism. Case closed.


Unfortunately for us, the non-westerners seems to think extremism and violence is the ultimate solution for everything. I will probably get flamed for that statement, but this discussion has been discussed in the Drawing Room time and time again, and obviously I am not going to change my stance.

[lynx]

I totally agree, rational and non-extreme behaviour is a necessity before any solution can be achieved. Unfortunately, it is quite obvious that it is not only the non-westerners who act in this way. Nor is it helpful to brand all non-westerners as irrational and extremist, it leads to resentment.

It is not the only requirement, respect for democracy is of paramount importance, even if you don't agree with the wishes of the population.

Disapproval by the West of Communist regimes could not have been more evident for over 50 years, but with few exceptions that did not bring attempts of total trade restrictions; only in cases such as Cuba where the state was too feeble to do anything about it. The situation in Palestine is analogous. There's a simple term for that sort of action, it is called bullying.

There is little hope for a settlement while the Israel and the West believe they can carry out and condone such behaviour without any consequences.

[zapjb]

Some view this & other conflicts as delinated in George Orwell's book 1984. Written in 1948.

Basically the very rich trick the poor into doing their bidding.

An interesting read for those not familiar.

[Biggles]

One cannot espouse democracy and then bully people if they don't vote the way you want - be it Chile, Chechyna or Palestine. It only causes cynicism and grumpiness.

Of course one could simply round up all the Palestinians and ship them to Iraq but this might be a bit harsh.

There are no easy solutions when two people think they have an equally dominant claim to the same thing. In the end either one will be disappointed, the thing itself no longer worth having or a compromise is agreed.

[jimbo12345]

But, for the Jews and the Palestines (i think), Jerusalem is sometihng they both hold claim to. Neither will give it up due to its religious significance, quite rightly. So, sharing and coexistence needs to be sort. Living amongst one another.

I once had a crazy idea that they could build a massive land extension, like they did with that palm tree island in Dubai. Thus, some seperation and moderation, but some kind of sharing system for the important religious sites. They don't really want to kill each other, i believe, just want equality. Everyone gets land, they all get to do their religious thing. Naive i know, but like the Iraq sit, something drastic needs to be done.

I'm kind of pleased Tony Blair will work as an envoy for this area. Although, i do worry that his association with the US and UK will already have damaged his cred on all sides before he's even started. On the plus side, he won't give up.

[tralalala]

But, for the Jews and the Palestines (i think), Jerusalem is sometihng they both hold claim to. Neither will give it up due to its religious significance, quite rightly. So, sharing and coexistence needs to be sort. Living amongst one another.

Both sides claim hold on the whole of the land of Israel. Problem is, who got there first? It's like asking if the egg beat the chicken to it. If it were a type of who got there first thing, it then depends what time in history you pick - there was a time when King David ruled over many parts of Lebanon, Syria and Egypt. Then there were times the Jews only ruled small areas near Jerusalem. This is why people need to find some agreement where both sides will not necessarily be happy, but rather not pissed too much.

This is one of the great challenges of the past century.

[j2k4]

One cannot espouse democracy and then bully people if they don't vote the way you want...

It only causes grumpiness.

I was gonna say that.

Severe grumpiness.

[jimbo12345]

I tried reading a book about why the situation has gone on for so long...it was really confusing!

Give me the basics, why can't Israel and Palestine not be a whole coutry, living in the same place as each other?Just a multi-faith country...

I know the argument is fueled by a lot of outside interference, but i dont believe that anyone really wants to have death on their door steps.

[tralalala]

Because each side claims hold on the area. If it would be a multi-faith country as the Brits wished for 70 years ago, who would sit in government? Would it be a Muslim or Jewish government? Either side cannot afford this. Therefor, the Jews decided to try the 2 state solution, which the Arabs disagreed on.. Time and time again. Therefor the Jews took initiative and fought against the Arabs after the UN decided a Jewish state would be a good idea. We won that war, and all wars since. Fact. All because the Arabs can't give.. they only seem to want to take and take all, or nothing. So, this is the consequence of not being able to reach an agreement all them years ago.