Abortion Views

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Neil__@9 July 2003 - 09:17
I think the word PLANNED gives that away j2k4

Neil

You are, of course, correct.

I apologize for allowing my bias to force this regretful redundancy.

[Everose]

I have read this thread and the various deep beliefs and experiences that have led to them. I can sympathize with men who are not considered in a woman's choice and the heartbreak and anger and frustration that could result.

I am really concerned about abortion used as a means of birth control, and also what is called partial birth abortions. I don't think there is always mandated counseling, and I wish there were.

I guess I would like to say that I admire Clocker's objectivity. It sounds to me like he has witnessed tough decisions that were made not just for the convenience of the woman involved.

And he realizes unless you have walked a mile in someone's shoes, you really have no clue.

I often wonder how a woman led to the decision by what is best for everyone involved, even the unborn child, totally comsumed by emotional, financial and physical stress goes through when she drives to the clinic ..........maybe if only one person would hold their hand out and say 'I will do everything within my power to help you have your baby....' But by things I have seen on tv, she doesn't often get that by those outside the clinic. She receives only insults and ridicule by the protestors. I am afraid that would only reinforce any feelings she has about bringing a baby into such an 'understanding' world.

I don't know. I don't have the answers. I think that if each and every one of us reached out......and maybe helped one woman, we could start to effect change. I hope to have that chance someday in someway.

Clevertoes

I am having mixed emotions when it comes to the God I know and love. I feel abortion is a sin. But I also feel that setting ones self up to judge another for their extremely painful hard decisions is also against God's laws. I somehow feel that God forgives, even to those that cannot forgive themselves. And my heart goes out to them.

[Infested Cats]

The two key issues to focus on are: the nature of a fetus, and the nature of individual rights.

The first issue to grasp is the difference between potential and actual. A fetus is not an actual human being, but is human tissue. A fetus is only a potential human being, just like an acorn is a potential oak tree. That a fetus is potential human being, does not make it an actual one. Once you grasp this point, you need to grasp a much more complex point — which is not self-evident — about the nature of rights.

The second issue to grasp is that rights only apply to actual human beings. Rights only apply to human beings; they apply to human beings because man survives by reason. Men do not survive — at least for long — like animals do in the jungle. Rather then hunting for food like an animal, man grows it. He builds houses to protect himself from hurricanes and storms. He creates clothing to keep warm. He discovers drugs to kill bacteria that may cause him harm. He manufactures refrigerators to keep his food fresh. This is why man has rights — and animals do not — to leave his mind free to think, and his body free to act on that thinking. As a fetus does not use reason to survive; but, rather it survives on the sustenance provided by the body of its' host, a fetus has no rights, and no need for rights. A fetus has no right to life, liberty, property.

The key issue in this context is that a fetus has no right to be inside the body of another human being, because no such right exists. Yet, this is the only kind of 'right' it requires to exist. To grant the fetus such a right, would make its host — the pregnant mother — a slave. Slavery is not a right.

This in essence is the case for a woman's moral right to abortion: a fetus is not an actual human being, but is only human tissue inside the body of an actual human being. Rights only apply to actual human beings (whether a new born child, or a hundred year old grandfather, or a pregnant woman), as they require freedom to act by the use of their mind.

[Everose]

Well, I guess the struggle then is between the heart and the mind? ;-)

I will have to say I personally know a woman who struggled with a fear of tiolets flushing. So much so that her family offered to pay for her to be hypnotized to see if they could get to the root of her problem. She was taken clear back, to past lives to the point where she saw a woman with red hair who was crying....clear back to where it became obvious that she was actually an embryo miscarried into a tiolet. I know this may seem far fetched to many. And I myself have no clue as to the exactness of being hypnotized in this way.

But to hear of something like this..........kind of makes your heart lead and your head spin.

[MagicNakor]

Originally posted by Infested Cats@12 July 2003 - 06:45
...a fetus is not an actual human being, but is only human tissue inside the body of an actual human being...

To be perfectly frank, a fetus fits the description of a parasite. Pro-lifers don't generally like to hear that. If one were to get nitpicky, it'd be an obligate parasite.

[ScotchGuy]

I'm completely for abortion. Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that this world is much too overpopulated for it's own good. So what's the big deal if the woman who was having a child decided that she didn't want it anymore. It personally doesn't bother me in the least, it's their choice.

While the baby is in the womb it really is not a human yet, it has no thought process, it cannot even comprehend what's going on. So if it dies then what's the big deal, it happens all the time. Who cares how it dies, it's not even a real human.

MagicNakor stated that "a fetus fits the description of a parasite." So basically having an abortion is similar to destroying a parasite. Makes sense now why so many people are against abortion.

Also I'm incredibly sick of seeing children being born constantly and growing up having a terrible life because the parents didn't want them in the first place. If the Catholic church hates suffering and is against death of a fetus, then why aren't they against the fact that because a woman coudn't have an abortion this poor child, through no fault of its own will live a horrible life because their parents didn't care for them or even want them around. It will probably slip through the cracks of our education system and end up at the age of 50 living on the street hassling people for some money so they can get drunk or do crack. So what's the point of putting a person through this, why not destroy the parasite and save someone the agony of living a terrible life. More space and air for the rest of us, and more happy people. Now I'm not saying that just because your parents hated you and didn't want you will you end up leading a terrible life, but it is much more likely then if you were to grow up in a loving family.

All I know is that if I had the choice as a fetus to either die and go to heaven (which is what the Catholics believe will happen if you die in the womb) or to be born with parents that hate me and don't want me, I would definitely choose the first option.

[DarkBlizzard]

Abotion needs to be illegal and us guys will just have to not be as stupid and not f*ck a girl u meet while u were walkin the streets with ur buddys

[ScotchGuy]

Perhaps, but how on Earth would it ever be possible to get every male on the planet to "stop fucking girls". Maybe if we asked nicely. Point is it takes two to tango, if the girl doesn't want to get pregnant maybe she shouldn't be having sex, hmm there's a thought.

[Rat Faced]

DarkBlizzard,

thanks for the opinion...however you forgot to give your reasons.

I suspect that they are religious in nature, however you havent gave an argument either way.

[MagicNakor]

Indeed, ScotchGuy. And rape is just something the media made up.