In Defense Of The United States Of America

[Neil__]

Please no more SPAM/propogander please?


EEK.

Neil.

[Neil__]

And I thank you for your enlightenment.
I'll be sure to look them up.

Neil.

[3RA1N1AC]

Originally posted by hobbes@5 July 2003 - 17:02
I will listen open-mindly and respond, my take is that we are argueing the same thing, with slightly different ways of expressing it.

that may be true. the absolute inverse of "english-only" or "english-first" isn't really a belief that anyone holds.

an underlying point i've wanted to make, and perhaps not expressed clearly enough, is that i think the issue of people not speaking english in the u.s. has been blown out of proportion.

it appears to me that the vast majority of immigrants do learn english; and of the ones who don't, most have children who do. it might be irritating to constantly be around people who refuse to speak the common language, yet from my personal experience (a life spent mostly in california, a state as metropolitan as any) i reckon that immigrants shed their foreign cultures/languages as fast in 2003 as they ever have.

it just seems to me that a mountain-out-of-a-molehill complaint is often lodged about the natural pace with which immigrants make their transition into mainstream society. as far as i'm concerned, that particular aspect of our society is not broken and it doesn't need to be fixed. with a few very unusual exceptions like the pennsylvania dutch, the overwhelming trend is for cultural/language barriers to fall away naturally and mainstream society just needs to be patient.

if it is a problem, it's a problem so miniscule that it isn't worth complaining about, imho.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC+7 July 2003 - 21:05--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3RA1N1AC @ 7 July 2003 - 21:05)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@5 July 2003 - 17:02
I will listen open-mindly and respond, my take is that we are argueing the same thing, with slightly different ways of expressing it.

that may be true. the absolute inverse of "english-only" or "english-first" isn&#39;t really a belief that anyone holds.

an underlying point i&#39;ve wanted to make, and perhaps not expressed clearly enough, is that i think the issue of people not speaking english in the u.s. has been blown out of proportion.

it appears to me that the vast majority of immigrants do learn english; and of the ones who don&#39;t, most have children who do. it might be irritating to constantly be around people who refuse to speak the common language, yet from my personal experience (a life spent mostly in california, a state as metropolitan as any) i reckon that immigrants shed their foreign cultures/languages as fast in 2003 as they ever have.

it just seems to me that a mountain-out-of-a-molehill complaint is often lodged about the natural pace with which immigrants make their transition into mainstream society. as far as i&#39;m concerned, that particular aspect of our society is not broken and it doesn&#39;t need to be fixed. with a few very unusual exceptions like the pennsylvania dutch, the overwhelming trend is for cultural/language barriers to fall away naturally and mainstream society just needs to be patient.

if it is a problem, it&#39;s a problem so miniscule that it isn&#39;t worth complaining about, imho. [/b][/quote]
I agree, though I see such "honoraria"(?) as spanish being declared the official "second language" of, I believe, New Mexico, as 1) counterproductive; 2) serving no purpose; 3) pandering; and 4) pretty f**king silly.

[Neil__]

j2k4
What&#39;s the proportion of New Mexican&#39;s that can speak Spanish?
Not only Spanish but have the ability.

Neil

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Neil__@9 July 2003 - 08:58
j2k4
What&#39;s the proportion of New Mexican&#39;s that can speak Spanish?
Not only Spanish but have the ability.

Neil

I don&#39;t know; how does that weigh on my point?

There is no need anywhere in this country for an "official second language".

What the U.S. is should not be subject to eternal adjustment everytime someone emigrates.

Why is it that "naturalization" is no longer looked upon as necessary?

[Neil__]

Originally posted by j2k4+9 July 2003 - 15:23--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 9 July 2003 - 15:23)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Neil__@9 July 2003 - 08:58
j2k4
What&#39;s the proportion of New Mexican&#39;s that can speak Spanish?
Not only Spanish but have the ability.

Neil

I don&#39;t know; how does that weigh on my point?

There is no need anywhere in this country for an "official second language".

What the U.S. is should not be subject to eternal adjustment everytime someone emigrates.

Why is it that "naturalization" is no longer looked upon as necessary? [/b][/quote]
That&#39;s a little too close to the Klan for me.
I&#39;m not saying you&#39;re racist but where does that road go.

Neil.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Neil__+9 July 2003 - 09:47--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Neil__ @ 9 July 2003 - 09:47)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by j2k4@9 July 2003 - 15:23
<!--QuoteBegin-Neil__

@9 July 2003 - 08:58
j2k4
What&#39;s the proportion of New Mexican&#39;s that can speak Spanish?
Not only Spanish but have the ability.

Neil

I don&#39;t know; how does that weigh on my point?

There is no need anywhere in this country for an "official second language".

What the U.S. is should not be subject to eternal adjustment everytime someone emigrates.

Why is it that "naturalization" is no longer looked upon as necessary?

That&#39;s a little too close to the Klan for me.
I&#39;m not saying you&#39;re racist but where does that road go.

Neil. [/b][/quote]
Naturalization classes?

Have been and still are part of a legal and official entry into the U.S. for purposes of immigration.

Certain facts and relevancies are imparted to the emigres; there is certainly nothing "racist" or at all sinister involved, Neil.

It&#39;s just that with the ease of entering illegally, no one can be "bothered" to actually "nod" at the process.

[Neil__]

What the U.S. is should not be subject to eternal adjustment everytime someone emigrates.

Lessons in what it takes to be an American Citizen are fine in principle
and Illegal Imigrants are a real sore point

but

It&#39;s the above line that can be misinterpretedand I never said I had a problem with your point
smacks of diluting the races if you go too far down that road
thats all and you have to be careful not to give the bigoted any excuse


Sorry j2k4 hope I didn&#39;t offend

Neil

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Neil__@9 July 2003 - 10:18

What the U.S. is should not be subject to eternal adjustment everytime someone emigrates.

Lessons in what it takes to be an American Citizen are fine in principle
and Illegal Imigrants are a real sore point

but

It&#39;s the above line that can be misinterpretedand I never said I had a problem with your point
smacks of diluting the races if you go too far down that road
thats all and you have to be careful not to give the bigoted any excuse


Sorry j2k4 hope I didn&#39;t offend

Neil

Re: offending-not to worry, but I&#39;m stymied as to you get to the "Klan" from here?