Refugee Problem

[thewizeard]

Originally posted by Ron@14 July 2003 - 12:44


Again, I cannot but wonder why we don't have problems with Bouddhists or Hindous.....

Hello Ron,

I believe that there is a Tibetan Boedhhist center in Schoten. If you have some time, why not visit it - you will then find out.

Buddhist Union of Belgium
L'Union Bouddhique Belge a.s.b.l /
Boeddhistische Unie van België v.z.w. regroupe
Siège social / Zetel
Frans Goetghebeur, Président
Kruispadstraat 33 - 2900 Schoten
Tel: 03 685 09 19, Fax: 03 685 09 91
Email: [email protected]
Web site: www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Fuji/2753/

Nigel

[Ron]

LOL.
Thank you Nigel, but I already know a lot of Bouddhists.
Well, I know a lot of Chinese people. I just assume they're Bouddhists actually.
The reason they don't cause problems, must be the fact that they stick to themselves mostly. They don't try to force their religion on us. Neither do the Hindous, AFAIK.
Not aggressively anyway.
If it weren't for religion, the world would be a peaceful place.
And if weren't for ugly people, it would be a beautiful one too.

[Rat Faced]

(Ron @ 14 July 2003 - 12:44)

Again, I cannot but wonder why we don't have problems with Bouddhists or Hindous.....

Because they have wholey different beliefs, rather than a number of shared?

Go back far enough and Muslems, Jews and Christians were all the same religion, and the basic, grassroots beliefs reflect this.

Maybe its the Differences in a similar religion that rubs the fanatics up the wrong way.

I disagree though, as you knew i would, about Islam being more "extreme" than the other 2.

Christians also have there Right Wing fanatics (look at the Bible Belt of USA, and how religion has a huge effect on Politics there).

There are sects of the Jewish faith that are fanatical enough to not even acknowledge other Jews as Jews...



I maintain that the perceived "extremism" and violence attributed to Islam is a cultural thing as much as a Religious one.

The vast majority of extremists come from countries where life is cheap..and they reflect that.


When the Western Countries (European/Christian) were in that situation..THEY were violent...(eg Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Vlad the Impaler, Catholic/Protestant problems a few hundred years ago....the list could go on)


I'll re-state my position:

1/ Asylum Seekers/Refugees:

If they can get to UK without going through any other safe country 1st, then fine...we help them. If they can pass through other safe countries without asking there 1st...then they are taking the piss. In both cases, the help is short term...NOT an invitation to rip the country off for the next 20 years, and if they cause trouble, then they should be sent right back where they came from...Tough.


2/ Immigrants.

Wholley different ballgame.

If they want to come to the UK and become UK citizens, with the same rights and resonsibilities as other UK citizens. If they want to integrate and contribute to the culture here...(not import theirs and stick with it, refusing to learn the language or integrate) then I welcome them with open arms.

[Ron]

Well, I haven't seen any racial killings between Jews yet. And there a lot of them in Antwerp. Jews not recognizing other Jews isn't a problem for me. I can safely walk through the Jewish part of Antwerp at night, as long as there aren't any North Africans around.
Your remark that they come from places where life is cheap, doesn't quite cut it.
Turkey may not be the most democratic place on Earth, but people aren't exactly killed on the streets there either. Neither are they in Morocco....
Life is a lot cheaper in China and India, I think. Still, those people are a lot more peacufull and willing to integrate/assimilate.

Also, I did say that Christianity WAS violent in the past. But muslems are living in the same time we are, no? In Algeria, satellite dishes are forbidden, because the (Islamic) government doesn't want the people to get objective (non-Islamic) news.
In Pakistan, the internet providers have been taken down to prevent people from seeing porn. (sic)
That's just in the poor world you say?
Well, in Belgium muslem women are still forced to marry a man from the homecountry.
Women are forced to have their clitoris removed, and their vagina gets sewn to provide a tighter feeling for the man.
This gets done by doctors, imported from the homecountry, becase they KNOW it's forbidden. These people DO live in a Western country. They DO have TV, a car, a refrigerator, a.s.o. They do NOT live in the Middle ages.

I do fully agree with your last two points however.
Just one small note.
If people have to stay in the first safe country, that would pretty much exclude Great Brittain, wouldn't it?
Well, Belgium as well, I suppose.

[thewizeard]

Rat-faced:

I can go along with your second point Rat-Faced. I have on the first point a problem.
Arriving in Europe one has to claim asylum in the first country one enters as you pointed out. The problem arises when members of ones family are residing in another European country. The result is long term seperation from ones loved ones.

Ron: I felt tempted to tell you about the 4 keys of Buddha and the 4 closely related truths of the "deeply realized." Unfortunately it's way off topic!

[Ron]

Nigel, if the family was living in another country, they could move to be close to their relative, no?
Besides, that would only happen in the period of the transition. After a while, everyone entering Europe from a certain place would be going to the same country, so the problem would be solved.

[4play]

The problem arises when members of ones family are residing in another European country.

Why would the family be split up if they remained in the same region.

nice point rat faced but what will happens when everone claims Immigration status and then partitions are courts saing they get no benefits which is against their humans rights.

there is no easy way to stop the abuse so until we can find a universal policy then we should not accept anymore immigrants or asyulum seekers and return all those who's countries have now become safe.

another point is that these people do not have to be loyal to are queen. many have fought against this country but still claim asylum here. we should execute these people just for the damn cheek of doing this.

[MagicNakor]

I don't think I've seen the word "immigrant" be so misused for quite some time.

You cannot "claim" immigrant status. It's granted to you after jumping through a number of hoops, and spending an obscene amount of money. I know. I've been through it.

Oddly enough, not all immigrants come from Asia or the Middle East. Although you wouldn't know it by reading this thread.

I'm not going to touch the religion aspect here yet; I have to run to the dentist.

[Ron]

You should have come to Belgium then.
Over here, politicians jump through hoops for you, and you even get paid.

[Rat Faced]

MagicNakor,

I know the rules on immigration, and how hard (except for certain professions, and countries) it is to come to the UK to live....

However, its BECAUSE they are willing to jump through hoops to BE BRITISH that i'd welcome them.

Personally, I dont care if they are Black, White or pink with Blue spots....if they are willing to go through the immigration route, they are welcome in my book.


I think UK Asylum policy is unfair...such as the "White List", however i'm trying to remove the immigration issue from the other two ie: Asylum/Refugee. These two are a wholey different problem.


Nigel123,

Under the EU proposed rules, there would be no problem.

Every country would be following the same rules, and once given asylum/refugee status are "placed" in EU countries....THIS is the point where "family" should be brought in, when deciding where they go.


Ron,

We get many refugees/asylum seekers that arrive in the UK 1st...we are an Island and we have airplanes.

However the ones that hit the news are the ones being smuggled in from various mainland Europe Countries (so they should have claimed THERE...they broke the rules, throw 'em out), and the ones coming through the Channel Tunnel.....from France (again...they broke the rules, throw 'em out).


This may seem harsh, but about 25% of the worlds population can claim British Citizenship if they really wanted it (and the rest could try through immigration)......we're only a small Island.