Refugee Problem

[thewizeard]

Ok then, you mentioned those who abuse the system. What do you feel about genuine requests for asylum?

[4play]

Ok then, you mentioned those who abuse the system. What do you feel about genuine requests for asylum?

I have no sympathy for these people. Sorry to say it but i have seen too much abuse to care about genuine people. if they are genuine they would only go as far as they needed to go to escape. i do not see any local countries to England that should have refuges let alone britain.

[Rat Faced]

Just out of interest, do you class immigrants the same?

Remember these are people that are taking British Citizenship and are living under the same rules as yourself for work/benefits, they get no "privelages" except English Class's if they dont speak the language.



If you have nothing against these people...how do YOU tell them apart?



If you dont class them as different, then I feel your motivation has crossed to Racism rather than logic.

[thewizeard]

I am sorry you feel so bitter.

You probably read the quote that I posted from Ruud Lubbers. If you didn't I ask you to read it.

They are working to put an end to the abuse. Untill a new European convention is passed, it will no doubt continue.

[4play]

Just out of interest, do you class immigrants the same?

Remember these are people that are taking British Citizenship and are living under the same rules as yourself for work/benefits, they get no "privelages" except English Class's if they dont speak the language.



If you have nothing against these people...how do YOU tell them apart?



If you dont class them as different, then I feel your motivation has crossed to Racism rather than logic.

I do class immigrants as the same. these people do get privelages. Try a £3000 cheque to set themselfs up in this country for a start. why not give this to real british citizens to pay for their university or something alone those lines

edit:

I am sorry you feel so bitter.

You probably read the quote that I posted from Ruud Lubbers. If you didn't I ask you to read it.

They are working to put an end to the abuse. Untill a new European convention is passed, it will no doubt continue

sorry to say it but i do not belive that a european policy will resolve this issue. a body of unelected representatives are nthing less than a joke to me.

[Rat Faced]

I do class immigrants as the same. these people do get privelages. Try a £3000 cheque to set themselfs up in this country for a start. why not give this to real british citizens to pay for their university or something alone those lines

I think you'll find that is for "Highly Skilled" workers only (eg Nurses/Teachers) and is also availabe to any UK citizens if they take up the same occupations....especially Teachers.

The reason i single out Teachers is that its a "Resettlement" Grant if you have to move house to take up the occupation. With Teachers you get a Grant to go to University for your Teaching Certificate, whether or not you have to move house...(there are Shortages Nationwide, so its assumed you can work locally)

£3000 is not a lot to move from North of England/Scotland to the South, considering the huge difference in Property prices. I doubt it makes much difference at all coming from a poor country...probably the deposit on a Rented flat.


Edited: Last 2 paragraphs added

[4play]

does cab driver fall into that Category. well they get that £3000 any way mate.

do not believe the lies that politicians tell you. these people Regularly rig the figures for immigrants and you believe them about how much they get.

I have seen, talked and argued with these people for the past 10 years and all of them say how easy it is to get benefits.

edit: dope did not make sense.

[junkyardking]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@11 July 2003 - 16:26

Well i know that Australia was never Dutch or given as compensation, there were Dutch who discovered Australia before Britian thats why it had that Dutch name of which i forget, but Australia after invasion was a British colony.

Isnt that what i said?

It was Dutch, and we won it off them....not off the Aboriginies (which would have been an invasion).

We never fought over there, we fought over here...Australia was nothing more than a prize in a minor scuffle between 2 European Powers of the time.

To my knowledge there was no fighting for Australia of any kind, the Dutch simply named it and that was about that, they considered it to harsh to support large populations, the Dutch never made any real claim to sovereignty over Australia and never set up any colony, so in basic sense the British had it first before any of the european powers.


But anyway back to topic.


Refugees will continue to exsist, while they suffer under regimes and while they dont have equal rights, priviliges,freedoms and material wealth.

The only real way to solve it is to have equality on all levels, all over the Earth but wither that will happen will be for history not written yet.

[MagicNakor]

The only way that would happen would've been if the Communist International had succeeded. And, although it's an excellent ideology, it can never work in practice.

[Ron]

From what I've read, Ruud Lubbers seems to be an idealist.
Sorry to say that idealism and realism are far apart from each other.
Sending back refugees that enter our country seems to be one of the biggest problems. Only a very small part of them get put back on a plane. Most of them simply get a piece of paper that tells them to get out of the country in the next three days.
For those who get put on a plane: they can't be forced. If they refuse to get on, police cannot force them.
For those who get the 'eviction' notice: it also serves as a proof of presence. If a person with that paper can manage to stay in this country for three years, he/she has a claim to our citizenship!! The same paper that tells them to go, also serves as a legit document for admittance. How f*cked up is that?
So no need to tell that most of those people simply 'disappear' for a few years, vanish in the underworld, and pop up three years later ith a claim to our citizenship, which is always granted. But what have they lived off for three years?

All over the world, (and that goes for us, 'civilized' countries as well) the good have to pay for the bad. It's a sad reality that everywhere refugees come, crime rises. Nobody in Belgium wants a refugee center in their town, because people don't feel safe anymore. Well, "feel safe" is an eufemism here. They AREN'T safe anymore, pure and simple.
We have a lot of problems here with economical refugees and/or immigrants from Northern Africa. Especially from Morocco and Turkey. I've been to Turkey on a holiday twice, and the difference between the people here and there is astonishing!
You can safely walk the streets at night in Turkey!! Imagine that. People are kind and friendly. (well, they were when I was there) They have about two children per family. (must be around 7 or 8 here)
So I talked to some people I met there, and they told me that the mostpart of the people we get here in Belgium, are the people they didn't want in Turkey either. Mind the "mostpart" bit, they're not all bad, just most.
So the reality of things is that they abuse our system, because we let them. Hell, we sometimes encourage them even.
Stop the abuse, and you might have a chance of making it work. Stopping the abuse will stop refugees coming in in their big numbers. It will make people smugglers look for another way of income.

Then, there's also the snakepit of religion. While different cultures can live together perfectly (IMHO), different religions cannot. Don't kid yourself saying they can. Take a look at the world. Religion is the bigggest cause of wars at the moment. Even subdivisions of a certain religion fight each other. So my opinion is that if people come in here, they have a right to practise their religion in private, but have no right to try and change our communities into what they think they should be like. I have no intention of getting on my knees and praying to Mekka every day. But the problem is that the Islam is a very aggressive religion. Islam doesn't recognize any other religion. The imams (religious leaders) should be (are) a rolemodel for their community, but they refuse to integrate , so why would their followers? For example, we have an imam in Mechelen (and skweeky should know this) who has been living in Belgium for twenty years now. Still, he can't speak one word of Dutch. (or won't) What kind of example is that?
And yes, I'm aware of the atrocities the Christian church did in the past, but that's exactly what it was: the past. Since then, the world has changed. We have advanced to a higher level of science. We have nuclear bombs now. What happens if some idiot wants to become a martyr and blows himself up with one of those?
I'll probably be getting responses that say that Islam isn't aggressive, it's just extremists that are. Well, I don't agree. I know several people that should be muslems, but they don't give a f*ck about religion. Those are the guys I can live with. No problem there. But once they are practising their religion, muslims become extreme. ( a few exceptions to the rule do exist however)

Again, I cannot but wonder why we don't have problems with Bouddhists or Hindous.....