Refugee Problem

[thewizeard]

I thank you too Neil.

After reading what you have written I realise that there is still hope. Your words will comfort many.

As we say in Holland, tot ziens, tot horens of tot lezens!!

Nigel

[Ron]

Originally posted by Neil__@11 July 2003 - 18:32
I can see why there is outrage with refugees being given homes before nationals
but what sort of caring society would we be if we gave them sanctuary in our country and then threw them into the gutter
We have a moral responsibility to those to whome we outstretch a caring hand.

True. But what kind of country puts it's own people in the gutter?
And in a lot of cases, we didn't stretch out a helping hand. It was demanded.
And even then, you get complaints that you're not helping them enough.

I find myself torn between the natural feelings that one has for freinds and countrymen(they should come first)

You know, according to Belgian law, you are now a racist.
We had a right wing party here that used the slogan "Natives first", and that slogan was forbidden as being racist.

[Neil__]

Nigel
you have me at a partial loss.

tot ziens, tot horens of tot lezens?

see you soon, goodbye or ?

The third part has beaten me, I cannot find the meaning of "tot lezens"

I assume it's in the same vein so

Bye nigel and later

Neil.

[Neil__]

Ron
Blame the government for the inadequacies with respect to refugees and the unfairness of the system to the British/Belgians or any nationallity
It's hardly fair to blame the refugees themselves they have usually suffered enough.
and what is your source for their "demands for more"
or is it demands for fair and non racist treatment that they ask
if so they have that right.

As to the racist reference about Belgium

I am not a member of a right wing party and I'm sure it is only in that context that the phrase is banned

Anyway saying my "feeling for my countrymen should come first" is a far cry from
"foreigners go home" Which I think is closer to the phrase "Natives First" than what I said

So. Am I a belgian racist.
I think not.

Neil

[Ron]

First of all Neil, I certainly didn't mean to imply you're a racist in any way.
If it came across that way, I apologize. It was meant tongue in cheek.
As for the fact that refugees always more, how about their demands to get Arab and Islam part of the obligatory classes in school.
How about the wellfare worker that nearly got stabbed to death (seven times), because the refugee thought he didn't get enough. (as a surplus to his free housing, gas, electricity, furniture,etc.)
They even think it below their dignity to clean up their own mess.
I know a girl who's on unemployment, and she has to clean the rooms in a refugee shelter near Antwerp. (or lose her unemployment money)
Those guys even cr*p in the showers, and she has to clean it up. When she's done, they even check up on her, to see if she did her job well enough, according to them!
How about going ahead with demonstrations, even if they are forbidden by law, destroying everything they come across?
How about still making women wear their veil, even though Belgian law says it's forbidden to hide your face?
It's very strange that we only have problems with 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants too. Most of them are born here, have our nationality (as well as their own), but refuse to integrate. They do not recognize our culture, because "Islam is the only right way of living", but it's those guys that you can see in snackbars during Ramadan. ????
They claim that everyone who isn't a muslem is a racist.
So I wonder why other cultures/religions don't have the same problems, living in Western countries?
Could it be that the true racists are the muslems themselves for not accepting any other way of life thantheir own?

You are right in saying that it isn't the fault of refugees, immigrants or asylum seekers that our government gives them all these benefits. But it becomes a whole different matter when they start demanding them, and calling everyone who doesn't give them what they want right no, a racist.

[Ron]

Lol.
I just remember something that kind of describes what I mean.
We have a rather new political party in Belgium, called "AEL" (Arab-European League)
They have a division in the Netherlands too now, btw.
Anyway, one of their first members was this Morrocan guy, who after a while thought the AEL was too extreme, so he joined another party.
All of a sudden, this guy was a racist too!
So even muslems are racist towards muslems?
It's so ridiculous, it's funny.

[thewizeard]

Originally posted by Neil__@11 July 2003 - 18:38


tot ziens, tot horens of tot lezens?

.....Untill I see you, untill I hear from you or untill I read from you!

(literally translated)

Nigel

[Skweeky]

........yes, one can tell it's the Flemish holiday today....

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I don't entirely agree with Ron (I live in Belgium too). I know there are a lot of gaps in the agreements and that a lot of people don't get the help they should get. But I honestly don't see why a foreigner should get less help than a native. Do we actually OWN our country because we happen to live there? That's not my view....Ron, you make it look like all immigrants get instant help and native inhabitants get zip when needed. That's not true, it works both ways IMO. When going to Antwerp or Brussels I see more foreign homeless people that native homeless people btw.
I don't mean to offend anyone ofcourse, this is only my opinion.

I'd like to explain a bit more about those party's Ron was talking about.
Vlaams Blok(the one with the racist slogan) is a party that is right winged and conservative in a way that is rather disturbing (imo). They do not only want bettr rights for natives, they also want:
-strangers leaving
-women at home
-a curfew at night

These are just a few points of their program. As I recall correctly, it wasn't the slogan ITSELF that was seen as racist, but it was the slogan and the CONTEXT it was in.

AEL: a party started by Dyab Abou Jahjah. A Libanese citizen who erected a party to strive for more rights for foreigners and especially recognistion of the Arab culture here in Belgium. It is true he doesn't want to accept our laws and he is too extreme. This party is a group of right winged conservative ARAB people.

I don't see the difference between Vlaams Blok and AEL here. They're both giulty to the same 'crimes'.



Just my two cents

[Neil__]

Of course I didn't ron
I just point out how easily things get F***** up when you ban words
And for the racism thing then they should get a grip.

Here in the uk several years ago there was uproar when parents at a predominantly Muslim populated school demanded the hiring of an Urdu speaking teacher.
These weren't refugee kids but immigrants and my answer was clear.
If you chose to live here (and are not forced by circumstance) then learn the language and don't complain if your kids don't speak english and therefore can't learn

If you need help HIRE your own bloody teacher.

Ask by all means and MAYBE something can be arranged, Education for all and that
but what a nerve to demand a urdu speaker as you won't get one.My view is if you don't like it go away.

Refugees on the other hand have a right to expect education in what it takes to be British.

Neil

[Neil__]

Skweeky

Sounds like there's a bunch of nutters both sides of the arguement.

Neil