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Thread: P2p

  1. #1
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    Recently i was at my mums house for dinner. Afterward, when we were all quite drunk, the conversation turned to internet piracy. We were talking about music in general when i explained that i would only buy a cd if i really liked it, preferring to download for free. My mums partner, who's very strait-laced (his dad was a policeman), said he was totally against it. He thought it was bad for the industry, unfair to those who pay for their music, and that it being illegal should mean i don't do it.

    My defence was that the music industries greed is itself to blame. I remember when lp's and cassettes cost £7 - £8 for an album. As soon as cd's arrived, the price jumped to £12 - £13! What on earth justified this increase, the new technology? If so then surely this initial extra cost should have been absorbed by the industry. Even if it was passed on to the consumer, this massive hike was not justified. I also read recently that the industry wanted to claim royalties on the sale of used cd's by claiming that we don't buy cd's, rather that we rent them!! These sort of actions aren't going to endear them to anyone.

    Is it fair to the music buying public? Well, i believe that very many of those who do not partake in p2p, probably would if they knew how user friendly it is, and if they weren't scared of being 'caught'. P2P, to me, isn't any different to when i was a kid, taping cassettes. When i was at school back in the late 80's, as much of my music was copied, either from friends or off the radio, as was bought.

    As for it being illegal. Well, it's so easy to be a criminal these days. Perhaps the government, by choosing to criminalise recreational drug users, has made people care less about being law abiding citizens. Almost everyone i know has smoked a joint, particularly in their student days. This does not make them immoral, but it does criminalize them.

    I believe myself to a moral, principled person who is kind, tolerant and patient. I don't speed or drive my car while drunk. I am a pacifist who avoids confrontation, chooses not to eat meat, and donates time and money to charity. However, in the eyes of society, am i an immoral and unprincipled criminal? Should i care? How do i justify my actions to myself?

  2. Lounge   -   #2
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    I see no difference between downloading a movie or copying it onto a video tape from television. Does law boy do that.

    Similarly with music, taping from the radio etc. All you are doing is making a permanent record of something.

    I do not accept that it is criminal conduct. For personal use people are sued, not prosecuted.

    That makes it a civil, not criminal matter.

    PS this does not seem like lounge material, perhaps filesharing or somesuch.

  3. Lounge   -   #3
    Originally posted by liquidacid+21 July 2003 - 09:19--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (liquidacid &#064; 21 July 2003 - 09:19)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>... Afterward, when we were all quite drunk ...&nbsp;

    ... I don&#39;t speed or drive my car while drunk ...[/b]

    So then you took a taxi home???


    <!--QuoteBegin-liquidacid
    @21 July 2003 - 09:19
    ... we don&#39;t buy cd&#39;s, rather that we rent them ... [/quote]

    If we can rent DVDs at Blockbuster, why isn&#39;t there an industry that provides a similar service for the audiophile?

    IMO there really should be a chain of stores that rent audio CDs. That way the RIAA bastards could get a percentage of the take - like they want - and we could have access to the music for a reasonable price&#33;

  4. Lounge   -   #4
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    Originally posted by JPaul+ 21 July 2003 - 15:28 --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JPaul &#064; 21 July 2003 - 15:28 )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I see no difference between downloading a movie or copying it onto a video tape from television. Does law boy do that.

    Similarly with music, taping from the radio etc. All you are doing is making a permanent record of something.

    I do not accept that it is criminal conduct. For personal use people are sued, not prosecuted.

    That makes it a civil, not criminal matter.

    PS this does not seem like lounge material, perhaps filesharing or somesuch.[/b]

    Law boy?? He&#39;s a nice guy, if a little old fashioned. I&#39;d expect better of you than to call names.
    Record television? Well, he does yes. Is that the same though? When downloading movies, is it still unlawful if they are being shown on television, or just for new movies?

    Is it, in any circumstances, unlawful to record off the radio? What if you could collect a complete album tracklist?

    If this is not lounge material, i&#39;m sorry. This isn&#39;t meant in anyway to question filesharing technology, but feelings toward it being socially acceptable, or not.

    Originally posted by tite-wad@ 21 July 2003 - 15:29
    So then you took a taxi home???
    Erm, no. I stayed at my mumís house. She lives in Aberdeen and i live in Glasgow?&#33;?&#33; How supercilious you are.....
    <!--QuoteBegin-tite-wad
    @ 21 July 2003 - 15:29
    IMO there really should be a chain of stores that rent audio CDs. That way the RIAA bastards could get a percentage of the take - like they want - and we could have access to the music for a reasonable price&#33;[/quote] Well, that would be great, we could copy everything in wav format. Hmm somewhat unlikely...

  5. Lounge   -   #5
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    @tite-wad: we can borrow CDs at the library here. Can&#39;t you?

    Anyway, in Belgium, the price of blank CDs went up a while ago. They said it was to pay the artists of illegally copied material. Still, the copying is still illegal.
    How much sense does that make?

  6. Lounge   -   #6
    Originally posted by liquidacid+21 July 2003 - 09:56--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (liquidacid &#064; 21 July 2003 - 09:56)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> How supercilious you are.....[/b]


    Superscilious? ... me?

    Hardly&#33; ... more like advertent.


    <!--QuoteBegin-liquidacid
    @21 July 2003 - 09:56
    Well, that would be great, we could copy everything in wav format. Hmm somewhat unlikely... [/quote]

    Well, what I was intending was that at least the RIAA could take a percentage each time it was rented.

    Of course we&#39;d all be ripping them&#33;

  7. Lounge   -   #7
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    Originally posted by liquidacid+21 July 2003 - 15:56--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (liquidacid @ 21 July 2003 - 15:56)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JPaul@ 21 July 2003 - 15:28
    I see no difference between downloading a movie or copying it onto a video tape from television. Does law boy do that.

    Similarly with music, taping from the radio etc. All you are doing is making a permanent record of something.

    I do not accept that it is criminal conduct. For personal use people are sued, not prosecuted.

    That makes it a civil, not criminal matter.

    PS this does not seem like lounge material, perhaps filesharing or somesuch.
    Law boy?? He&#39;s a nice guy, if a little old fashioned. I&#39;d expect better of you than to call names.
    Record television? Well, he does yes. Is that the same though? When downloading movies, is it still unlawful if they are being shown on television, or just for new movies?

    Is it, in any circumstances, unlawful to record off the radio? What if you could collect a complete album tracklist?

    If this is not lounge material, i&#39;m sorry. This isn&#39;t meant in anyway to question filesharing technology, but feelings toward it being socially acceptable, or not.

    [/b][/quote]
    I thought I was expressing 100 % support for your position.

    The reason I said it was not lounge material was that all too often good discussions go adrift. It is more likely to stay on track elsewhere and be more keenly moderated.

    Hey Ho you try to agree with some people.

    Second time today - "live and learn".

  8. Lounge   -   #8
    Originally posted by JPaul@21 July 2003 - 10:12
    Hey Ho you try to agree with some people.
    Calling liquid a Ho was kinda harsh&#33;

  9. Lounge   -   #9
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    Originally posted by tite-wad+21 July 2003 - 16:15--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tite-wad @ 21 July 2003 - 16:15)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JPaul@21 July 2003 - 10:12
    Hey Ho you try to agree with some people.
    Calling liquid a Ho was kinda harsh&#33; [/b][/quote]
    Donīt be obtuse, it does you no credit.

  10. Lounge   -   #10
    Originally posted by Ron@21 July 2003 - 10:06
    @tite-wad: we can borrow CDs at the library here. Can&#39;t you?
    No, I can&#39;t borrow CDs from your library&#33;

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