How To Get To Heaven When You Die

**xfrodobagginsx** · 12-15-2007, 05:24 AM

The works are a RESULT of the salvation, NOT for salvation.

**Biggles** · 12-15-2007, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

The works are a RESULT of the salvation, NOT for salvation.

That is not what James is saying that is merely one denomination's interpretation of what he is saying. However, if that is what floats your boat who am I to argue

**Sextent** · 12-15-2007, 07:33 PM

An intelligent, educated individual, with a bounty of life experience and an inquiring, open
mind.

smarmy cunt.

**xfrodobagginsx** · 12-16-2007, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by Biggles

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

The works are a RESULT of the salvation, NOT for salvation.

That is not what James is saying that is merely one denomination's interpretation of what he is saying. However, if that is what floats your boat who am I to argue

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

We are saved to do (unto) good works, not because of them.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

**Cheeseman1208** · 12-16-2007, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

Originally Posted by Biggles

That is not what James is saying that is merely one denomination's interpretation of what he is saying. However, if that is what floats your boat who am I to argue

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

We are saved to do (unto) good works, not because of them.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Frodo, those are all quotes from the bible. The bible is a book, much like Harry Potter. And you do understand that this book was written 2000 years ago, and is all heresay (most, if not all of Jesus' disciples were illiterate). So, you would rather trust a 2000 year old book which is all hearsay rather than your own common sense?

Have you even read the bible frodo? You seem like a pretty devoted person, so I'm guessing you have. If the bible is god's word, then why is it filled with murder, adultery, incest, prostitution, and overall immorality? Take a look at the old testament of any non-childrens bible and you'll see what I'm talking about. If I had children, I would not let them read the bible, just because of it's profane nature.

Now, with that being said, I'm talking as if a god would exist in the first place. Which god do you pledge your devotion to frodo? Yahweh, Allah, Zeus, Thor, Herah, Baal, or any of the other countless gods humanity has believed in? Frodo, whether you like it or not, your an atheist about most god's humanity has ever believed in.

To me, belief in a god is a slap in the face to the complex and chaotic nature of our universe. Frodo, if you were to climb a mountain, would you try to take one large step to the summit, or would you take the sloping path to the top? Having a god that poofs everything into existence like a genie is like climbing a mountain in one step, utterly impossible. The universe, as well as life here on earth, were created over an infinite number of years, like an easy sloping path up the mountain.

And personally, I'd rather not go to a Christian heaven. That would be pretty boring. Valhalla, or even some virgins are better anyway.

**masterbat** · 12-16-2007, 08:43 AM

The bible is a book, much like Harry Potter

**Sextent** · 12-16-2007, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeseman1208

Originally Posted by xfrodobagginsx

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

We are saved to do (unto) good works, not because of them.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Frodo, those are all quotes from the bible. The bible is a book, much like Harry Potter. And you do understand that this book was written 2000 years ago, and is all heresay (most, if not all of Jesus' disciples were illiterate). So, you would rather trust a 2000 year old book which is all hearsay rather than your own common sense?

Have you even read the bible frodo? You seem like a pretty devoted person, so I'm guessing you have. If the bible is god's word, then why is it filled with murder, adultery, incest, prostitution, and overall immorality? Take a look at the old testament of any non-childrens bible and you'll see what I'm talking about. If I had children, I would not let them read the bible, just because of it's profane nature.

Now, with that being said, I'm talking as if a god would exist in the first place. Which god do you pledge your devotion to frodo? Yahweh, Allah, Zeus, Thor, Herah, Baal, or any of the other countless gods humanity has believed in? Frodo, whether you like it or not, your an atheist about most god's humanity has ever believed in.

To me, belief in a god is a slap in the face to the complex and chaotic nature of our universe. Frodo, if you were to climb a mountain, would you try to take one large step to the summit, or would you take the sloping path to the top? Having a god that poofs everything into existence like a genie is like climbing a mountain in one step, utterly impossible. The universe, as well as life here on earth, were created over an infinite number of years, like an easy sloping path up the mountain.

And personally, I'd rather not go to a Christian heaven. That would be pretty boring. Valhalla, or even some virgins are better anyway.

There's so much there that makes one's brain bleed that there isn't even a decent place to start. However can I have a stab at your contention that life on Earth was created over an infinite period of time. Or indeed that the universe was created over a similarly infinite period.

On what do you base this, presumably the "common sense" of which you speak and seem to put so much stock in. Certainly not current scientific thinking.

As to your mountain analogy, that's just comedy genious. Are we to replace Occum's Razor with Cheeseman's Mountain.