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Thread: Urine test for welfare?

  1. #81
    clocker's Avatar Shovel Ready
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busyman™ View Post

    All I proposed is a measure to reduce the likelihood of women having kids while on assistance.
    While failing to prove that it actually even happens.
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by clocker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Busyman™ View Post

    All I proposed is a measure to reduce the likelihood of women having kids while on assistance.
    While failing to prove that it actually even happens.


    Rooiighhht.

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #83
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    I'll take that to mean that you can't.

    Kind of odd, don't you think?
    If welfare mothers were spawning so actively you'd think there would be data showing it.

    Instead one finds this...
    Welfare Spending in Pennsylvania

    For more than a year, advocates for reduced state spending and lower taxes have argued that welfare spending in the Commonwealth has grown disproportionately. In press releases, letters to the editor, campaign platforms and literature, candidates and officials have condemned increased caseloads and the overall level of welfare spending.

    The reality of welfare and welfare spending in Pennsylvania is a remarkably different one from that the critics have portrayed. Welfare spending is a small portion of Pennsylvania’s overall state budget. In fact, welfare spending is a small portion of the Department of Public Welfare budget. Welfare caseloads have declined by more than 50% over the first 10 years of welfare reform, and despite an uptick during the economic recession—exactly what is to be expected when the economy fails—caseloads are once again on the decline. In August only 71,000 adults, less than 1% of adults statewide, received cash assistance benefits.

    While caseloads have declined, poverty has not.

    After making great gains during the 1990’s child poverty in Pennsylvania, and across the county, began to increase in 2000 and has yet to decline. Adult poverty has increased as well, and the number of adults with employer paid health insurance has declined. Wages for all but the highest income workers have not kept pace with inflation. Welfare spending is not the problem; access to jobs with family sustaining wages—wages that grow over time— and offer health care benefits is Pennsylvania’s challenge for the coming years.

    Consider the facts. . . .
    Welfare spending is a small percentage of state total state general fund spending

    * 96% of state spending is for non-welfare programs. Welfare costs, including administration, employment and training, child care and other related costs are only 4% of state spending.
    * Cash grants, which include direct payment to TANF recipients, are less than 2% of state spending.
    * Welfare grants in the most populous counties are just 24% of the poverty line ($403 for a family of three).

    Welfare programs are a small part of Department of Public Welfare spending

    * Almost 90% of the DPW budget is spent for programs other than welfare.
    * Cash grants to families make up only 5% of the DPW general fund budget. Total welfare spending, including administration, grants to the blind, employment and training, child care and other expenditures comprise less than 11% of DPW general fund spending.

    Welfare spending has declined in Pennsylvania

    * Spending on cash grants has declined from $675 million in 94-95 to $435 million in 05-06, a 36% reduction in nominal dollars.
    * Income maintenance programs have declined from 21% of the DPW budget in 94-95 to 11% in 05-06.
    * Cash grants declined from 12% of DPW spending to 4.1% over the 11 year period.

    * Spending for all income maintenance has declined slightly from $1.1 billion to just over $1 billion in 2005-06.

    Most welfare department spending is for health care services for the elderly, disabled and families with children

    * In 2005-06, 1.8 million people, almost 15% of the state’s population, received health care through MA alone (another 3% through CHIP and Adult Basic)
    * Almost 51% of MA recipients, 929,000 in total, are children, a proportion that grown since 2000.
    * MA spending has increased from 48% to 55% of DPW general fund spending.
    * Pennsylvania spends considerable more on long-term care for the elderly than on welfare: In 2005-06 the state spent almost twice as much on long-term care as it did on welfare.

    Welfare caseloads have declined considerably

    * TANF caseload declined by 53% from 1996 to 2006 from
    * Pennsylvania TANF caseloads mirror national picture. Nationwide TANF caseloads have declined by more than 50%.
    * PA was one of 25 states to see caseloads increase between 2001 and 2003, an increase of just 3.5% during the worst economic downturn in 50 years.


    Most TANF recipients are children

    * Only 30% of Pennsylvania’s TANF recipients are adults. 70% of all recipients are children.
    * 25,000 of 96,000 TANF cases are child only cases; no adult receives a TANF benefit in that household.
    * 170,000 children received TANF benefits in August of this year, a small fraction of the 460,000 Pennsylvania children live in poverty..

    Welfare is declining but poverty and insecurity are on the rise

    * The poverty rate in Pennsylvania increased from 8.6 to 11.2 percent between 2000 and 2005.
    * Over the same period the child poverty rate climbed from 11.6 to 16.9 percent.
    * The number of Pennsylvanians with employer-provided health insurance declined by 5.1 percent between 1999-2000 and 2004-2005.
    * Median wages in 2005, were 2 percent below their level in 2001, adjusted for inflation.

    August 2006 marked the 10th anniversary of the overhaul in the welfare system that created the TANF. Welfare reform changed the program in fundamental ways; making cash assistance a time limited benefit, encouraging rapid attachment to the workforce at the expenses of longer term education and skills building, and imposing sanctions on individuals and states that did not meet the new requirements.

    Welfare reform did result in reduced caseloads and reduced cash assistance expenditures. The promise of reduced poverty, improved economic security, and family self-sufficiency has yet to be achieved.
    Source.
    So, instead of seeing growth in welfare caseload and spending what we see is reduction in both areas.

    Now, what's the justification for mandatory birth control again?

    And, just in case you fail to grasp the irony, Busy...you want to ADD cost (the "shots" aren't free after all) to a program that's been shrinking for the past 10 years.

    Is ANY of this sinking in?
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #84
    Busyman™'s Avatar Use Logic Or STFU!
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    Quote Originally Posted by clocker View Post
    I'll take that to mean that you can't.

    Kind of odd, don't you think?
    If welfare mothers were spawning so actively you'd think there would be data showing it.

    Instead one finds this...
    Welfare Spending in Pennsylvania

    For more than a year, advocates for reduced state spending and lower taxes have argued that welfare spending in the Commonwealth has grown disproportionately. In press releases, letters to the editor, campaign platforms and literature, candidates and officials have condemned increased caseloads and the overall level of welfare spending.

    The reality of welfare and welfare spending in Pennsylvania is a remarkably different one from that the critics have portrayed. Welfare spending is a small portion of Pennsylvania’s overall state budget. In fact, welfare spending is a small portion of the Department of Public Welfare budget. Welfare caseloads have declined by more than 50% over the first 10 years of welfare reform, and despite an uptick during the economic recession—exactly what is to be expected when the economy fails—caseloads are once again on the decline. In August only 71,000 adults, less than 1% of adults statewide, received cash assistance benefits.

    While caseloads have declined, poverty has not.

    After making great gains during the 1990’s child poverty in Pennsylvania, and across the county, began to increase in 2000 and has yet to decline. Adult poverty has increased as well, and the number of adults with employer paid health insurance has declined. Wages for all but the highest income workers have not kept pace with inflation. Welfare spending is not the problem; access to jobs with family sustaining wages—wages that grow over time— and offer health care benefits is Pennsylvania’s challenge for the coming years.

    Consider the facts. . . .
    Welfare spending is a small percentage of state total state general fund spending

    * 96% of state spending is for non-welfare programs. Welfare costs, including administration, employment and training, child care and other related costs are only 4% of state spending.
    * Cash grants, which include direct payment to TANF recipients, are less than 2% of state spending.
    * Welfare grants in the most populous counties are just 24% of the poverty line ($403 for a family of three).

    Welfare programs are a small part of Department of Public Welfare spending

    * Almost 90% of the DPW budget is spent for programs other than welfare.
    * Cash grants to families make up only 5% of the DPW general fund budget. Total welfare spending, including administration, grants to the blind, employment and training, child care and other expenditures comprise less than 11% of DPW general fund spending.

    Welfare spending has declined in Pennsylvania

    * Spending on cash grants has declined from $675 million in 94-95 to $435 million in 05-06, a 36% reduction in nominal dollars.
    * Income maintenance programs have declined from 21% of the DPW budget in 94-95 to 11% in 05-06.
    * Cash grants declined from 12% of DPW spending to 4.1% over the 11 year period.

    * Spending for all income maintenance has declined slightly from $1.1 billion to just over $1 billion in 2005-06.

    Most welfare department spending is for health care services for the elderly, disabled and families with children

    * In 2005-06, 1.8 million people, almost 15% of the state’s population, received health care through MA alone (another 3% through CHIP and Adult Basic)
    * Almost 51% of MA recipients, 929,000 in total, are children, a proportion that grown since 2000.
    * MA spending has increased from 48% to 55% of DPW general fund spending.
    * Pennsylvania spends considerable more on long-term care for the elderly than on welfare: In 2005-06 the state spent almost twice as much on long-term care as it did on welfare.

    Welfare caseloads have declined considerably

    * TANF caseload declined by 53% from 1996 to 2006 from
    * Pennsylvania TANF caseloads mirror national picture. Nationwide TANF caseloads have declined by more than 50%.
    * PA was one of 25 states to see caseloads increase between 2001 and 2003, an increase of just 3.5% during the worst economic downturn in 50 years.


    Most TANF recipients are children

    * Only 30% of Pennsylvania’s TANF recipients are adults. 70% of all recipients are children.
    * 25,000 of 96,000 TANF cases are child only cases; no adult receives a TANF benefit in that household.
    * 170,000 children received TANF benefits in August of this year, a small fraction of the 460,000 Pennsylvania children live in poverty..

    Welfare is declining but poverty and insecurity are on the rise

    * The poverty rate in Pennsylvania increased from 8.6 to 11.2 percent between 2000 and 2005.
    * Over the same period the child poverty rate climbed from 11.6 to 16.9 percent.
    * The number of Pennsylvanians with employer-provided health insurance declined by 5.1 percent between 1999-2000 and 2004-2005.
    * Median wages in 2005, were 2 percent below their level in 2001, adjusted for inflation.

    August 2006 marked the 10th anniversary of the overhaul in the welfare system that created the TANF. Welfare reform changed the program in fundamental ways; making cash assistance a time limited benefit, encouraging rapid attachment to the workforce at the expenses of longer term education and skills building, and imposing sanctions on individuals and states that did not meet the new requirements.

    Welfare reform did result in reduced caseloads and reduced cash assistance expenditures. The promise of reduced poverty, improved economic security, and family self-sufficiency has yet to be achieved.
    Source.
    So, instead of seeing growth in welfare caseload and spending what we see is reduction in both areas.

    Now, what's the justification for mandatory birth control again?

    And, just in case you fail to grasp the irony, Busy...you want to ADD cost (the "shots" aren't free after all) to a program that's been shrinking for the past 10 years.

    Is ANY of this sinking in?
    I doubt the shot costs more than

    the doctor bill for child birth
    daycare
    healthcare for a newborn
    lengthening of welfare pay for the mother


  5. The Drawing Room   -   #85
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    Depo Provera causes bone loss, increase cervical cancer nine-fold, and increases risk of chlamydia and gonorrhea. Not to mention a myriad of other less threatening side effects. Is it still cheaper if medicaid has to pay the bills for treating this?
    Do you actually believe women should be forced to take a medication that could harm them?

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