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Thread: Drugs are bad m'kay

  1. #1
    4play's Avatar knob jockey
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    Any one else catch the article on rolling stone about how America lost the war on drugs. source

    It is six pages long but well worth the read. It makes some very valid points and for the lazy people im going to list them..

    1)attacking the cartels that supply the drugs only makes them move about and costs billions.
    colombia -> Bolivia -> mexico and the future seems bright for asia to play a bigger part.

    2)attacking marijuana as a gateway drug is pointless. the gateway theory is tenuous at best.

    3)locking dealers up for 30 years is a rubbish idea because it costs too much. better to scare the shit out of them first with actual proof that if they are seen doing it again 30 years awaits them and offer them help rehab / job placements.

    4)drug related violence is very probably caused by a gang mentality and brazenness rather than business related reasons. the tactics of identifying a whole gang, their members habits, girlfriend and family and confront the whole gang with this information seems to reduce violence dramatically. even if they don't stop dealing they tend to hide away which reduces the violence.

    5)the war on drug is being fought against the wrong people. Target the users not with punishment but with help. Make rehabilitation an option for all users caught for non violent offences.

    personally i would be happy to see softer drugs legalised and taxed while users addicted to harder drugs (heroin, coke, crack..) be locked away until doctors consider them clean and then given help finding homes and jobs.

    The best way to fight drugs is the remove the market. the supply will always be there to meet the market needs but if you shrink the market you shrink the problem.

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #2
    Can't really add much to what you've said already, it is an interesting article and i agree with pretty much all you've said except you're point about locking addicts away in prison, i'd rather treat addiction as a medical problem so i don't think prison is the right place. Also i think legalisation of any sort would need to be preceded by a lot of thought about regulation, and possibly decriminalisation instead of legalisation may be a better option.

    Cannabis is to be reclassified as a Class B drug after an official review this spring, The Times has learnt. Gordon Brown and Jacqui Smith are determined to reverse the decision to downgrade the drug when the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs completes its report in the next few months.

    While its recommendations are not yet known, ministers are already making plain that the Home Secretary is prepared to overrule the expert body if necessary. Reclassifying cannabis as a Class B drug will mean that anyone found in possession of the substance could face a five-year jail term and an unlimited fine rather than a police warning and confiscation of the drug. The penalty for supplying would remain the same, at a maximum 14 years in jail and unlimited fines.

    The advisory council, which rejected a previous attempt to reclassify cannabis in 2006, has been told to take into account public attitudes to cannabis as well as the medical evidence of its harm in reaching its conclusion.

    ...

    “The sentiment from No 10 and the Home Office is very much towards reclassification. It has to be as much about the message that is being sent out as much as anything else,” a senior Whitehall figure has told The Times. New evidence on the harm to mental health that smoking stronger forms of cannabis can cause helped to prompt the latest review of the law last autumn.

    In her letter to Professor Sir Michael Rawlins, the chairman of the council, requesting a further review of evidence, Ms Smith said: “Though statistics show that cannabis use has fallen significantly, there is really public concern about the potential mental health effects of cannabis use, in particular the use of stronger forms of the drug, commonly known as skunk. This is in addition to the longitudinal studies undertaken in New Zealand and the Netherlands that link cannabis use to mental health problems.



    Shortly after becoming Prime Minister Mr Brown signalled his desire to reverse David Blunkett’s 2001 decision to reduce cannabis to a Class C drug that came into effect three years later. “It is the message you send out. Why I want to upgrade cannabis and make it more a drug that people worry about is that we don’t want to send out a message, just like with alcohol, to teenagers that we accept these things.”
    ...

    The unpublished results of authoritative research into cannabis confirm that the skunk now on sale in England is stronger than it was a decade ago, but demolish claims that a new super-strength skunk, which is 20 times more powerful, is dominating the market.
    ...
    Another dilemma for the Government in defending a decision to press ahead with reclassification is that the latest figures from the British Crime Survey suggest a long-term fall in cannabis use. Figures from the 2006-07 survey estimate that 20.9 per cent of 16 to 24-year-olds used cannabis in the past year. However, there has been a decrease between 1998 and 2006-07 among 16 to 59-year-olds in the use of cannabis from 10.3 per cent to 8.2 per cent.

    basically our charming PM is planning on bullying the medical experts into coming out with the decision he's already made by telling them to take people's ignorance and prejudice into account (a prejudice built on feeding the public fear stories about cannabis for the last 40 years). And in the letter to the council they've pushed all the medical downsides and then on the side admitted that actually the medical side of it is pretty meaningless and that its all about 'the message', despite the fact that cannabis usage is declining (and continued to decline since the reduction in class) which basically implies that lowering the class sent out bugger all message.

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #3
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    While the U.S. "War on Drugs" is clumsy, costly, ill-implemented, poorly focused, and all-but-useless, Rolling Stone magazine is certainly not a panacea for policy.

    Smoke another doob and think it through.
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #4
    While the U.S. "War on Drugs" is clumsy, costly, ill-implemented, poorly focused, and all-but-useless
    but its been worthwhile?

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #5
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilw View Post
    While the U.S. "War on Drugs" is clumsy, costly, ill-implemented, poorly focused, and all-but-useless
    but its been worthwhile?
    Who said that?
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #6
    clocker's Avatar Shovel Ready
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    Is j2 shooting the messenger?
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #7
    lynx's Avatar .
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    Quote Originally Posted by clocker View Post
    Is j2 shooting up the messenger?
    fixed
    .
    Political correctness is based on the principle that it's possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #8
    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ilw View Post
    but its been worthwhile?
    Who said that?
    nobody, i was asking whether you thought it had been worthwhile. Has it been iyo?

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #9
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    messenger disabled/deleted
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #10
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post

    Who said that?
    nobody, i was asking whether you thought it had been worthwhile. Has it been iyo?
    No.

    Too much use of words like "incentivization" with no application of logic or reason; over-reliance on the blunt instrument of money.

    Human nature is continually overlooked.
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

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