Do "boot Camps" (courtesy Of S. J. Raphael.)

[Everose]

I know that in some cases, SRS can help a troubled child. During the thick of this, I requested a home visitor to help me see if there was anything I could do different, any ideas, etc., that would help me help Patty.

She got to meet the other children in the family and saw my interaction with all the children in the family in a very real way. She actually, I was told later....learned a lot from me. I liked her, just kind of had trouble taking advice about child raising from a woman who still let her nine year old son sleep with her every night!!

[Neil__]

Like I said some children are easily broken and re-educated.
And if that's your only measure of success then I am full of pity

Neil

[balamm]

It's good to know I'm not alone in my experiences Neverose. I have had the nightly task of counting the kitchen knives and driving all over town trying to find someone who dosen't want to be found.
Of pleading to the courts to protect the rest of the family. And the troubled child. Unfortunately, Where I live, a 14 year old cannot be told where to live or be made to follow any laws of common sense whatsoever. They are even allowed to move in with an older male of any age with the full knowledge that it is a sexual affair. What happens in the home, any home cannot be questioned in this case. Outrageous but true.
The police won't act to protect the family or the child even with death threats, drugs, and alcohol abuse involved.
If the parents don't care(their excuse) and the courts don't care, why should they?
In cases where they do take action, most parents scuttle any proceedings to try and protect the family name or avoid further embarasment anyway.
Having people who know nothing of raising a child involved in social programs or making legislation (or just making noise) makes matters worse. Kids that might have turned out somewhat ok now come home with "dial 911" engrained so deeply into their underdeveloped thought processes that a parent can't even look sternly in their direction anymore.

I've lived in Neils ideal world and have the nightmares and scars to show for it.

[Everose]

I guess Neil, my point is not all parents of troubled children abuse these children or let them be abused 'by proxy' But I can honestly tell you that if they had these boot camps in our area, when Patty was still in our care......we would have gone to this boot camp and checked it out thoroughly, and if we liked what we saw, we would have sent her in hopes she could learn self discipline.

From what I have read of these camps, they are physically challenging and very structured. I daresay, if children are abused in them,, they would be shut down, and SRS would be sued right and left for allowing children to be sent there.

Neil, you sound like a very carring chap, and I would encourage you to continue and reach out to help every child you can in anyway. But please realize, not all children will want you to.

[Neil__]

Originally posted by balamm@2 August 2003 - 23:54
It's good to know I'm not alone in my experiences Neverose. I have had the nightly task of counting the kitchen knives and driving all over town trying to find someone who dosen't want to be found.
Of pleading to the courts to protect the rest of the family. And the troubled child. Unfortunately, Where I live, a 14 year old cannot be told where to live or be made to follow any laws of common sense whatsoever. They are even allowed to move in with an older male of any age with the full knowledge that it is a sexual affair. What happens in the home, any home cannot be questioned in this case. Outrageous but true.
The police won't act to protect the family or the child even with death threats, drugs, and alcohol abuse involved.
If the parents don't care(their excuse) and the courts don't care, why should they?
In cases where they do take action, most parents scuttle any proceedings to try and protect the family name or avoid further embarasment anyway.
Having people who know nothing of raising a child involved in social programs or making legislation (or just making noise) makes matters worse. Kids that might have turned out somewhat ok now come home with "dial 911" engrained so deeply into their underdeveloped thought processes that a parent can't even look sternly in their direction anymore.

I've lived in Neils ideal world and have the nightmares and scars to show for it.

Sorry balamm you seem to be going of topic again

try to calm down and see thing through a clear head.

to answer anyway.

Your commitment as a parent is admirable but if you would be prepared to send one of your children to "Boot Camp" then I see it as my responcibility to STOP you doing that.

Any less would be abandoning your children.

Neil.

[balamm]

You and those like you have ruined more childrens lives than you can imagine you troll. You blather on about the rights of the child of whom you know nothing.
Did it ever occur to you to consider the lives of the other children in the home who are forced to suffer throught this nonsense? Who are raped repeatedly by an older sister or brother, beat, stolen from, lied about. Kids who have no chance for a normal childhood because they have to be on guard every moment of their young lives. Well fuck them cause Neil has a better plan eh?

No, your only purpose is to flame and insult, I suspect you have no real feelings on this subject, no alternatives, no experience, no research.
Any thoughts you might have, it appears, were quickly formulated as yet another desperate way of attracting attention to yourself.
Maybe if you yourself had attended some sort of workshop or camp, you wouldn't feel the need to take such a sensitive topic and cheapen it with your trolling.

You offend me and every parent that has had to live with a problem child. Grin now you dick.

[Everose]

Originally posted by Neil__@2 August 2003 - 19:00


Sorry balamm you seem to be going of topic again

try to calm down and see thing through a clear head.

to answer anyway.

Your commitment as a parent is admirable but if you would be prepared to send one of your children to "Boot Camp" then I see it as my responcibility to STOP you doing that.

Any less would be abandoning your children.

Neil.

You are the one to be pitied, Neil. Have you no understanding that sticking your head up your ass is the easy way out? There are plenty of parents that do that, and let their kids run wild, control the family and endanger their siblings. That, Neil, is abandoning your child..You do not do this if you truly have that child's best interest at heart.

And who are you to even suggest you know how I measure 'success?"

Live awhile. Then we will talk

Neverose

[liquidacid]

First and foremost, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. From what i can see, Neil is stating opposition to the American style 'Boot Camps' for children. I don't understand why this is such a problem.

Balamm, you accuse Neil of insulting you and every parent of a 'problem' child. While i understand your frustration with your 'problem' child, your being such a parent does not give you sole right to comment on the issue.
Neil has not passed judgement on you personally; rather, he has voiced strong opposition to these aforementioned camps. I don't know whether you both have a history of disagreement, but your aggressive response to his posts is quite unsettling. What i find disturbing is that you feel it necessary to refer to emotive subjects, such as rape and child abuse, to win a petty argument, and then resort to name-calling.

Neverose, your essay was very interesting and i respect you greatly for it. I don't however believe that it is relevant to the discussion here. As a Grade G (UK) mental health nurse who has worked in mental health for ten years, including 4 years in an acute admissions ward, it is my educated opinion that to expose abused children, or those with learning disabilities, to further intimidation and fear is counterproductive. The strict regime involved in these camps is not suitable for those with learning disabilities or mental illness.

If a child presents challenging behaviour then maybe a strict disciplined regime might help them. The problem lies in how this discipline would be applied. In no way should it involve intimidation or fear, as this would itself amount to abuse.

Here is an interesting site on the subject. http://www.nospank.net/boot.htm
-Note that it is a collection of articles on the subject and not the site author’s individual view.

[thewizeard]

Originally posted by liquidacid@3 August 2003 - 17:46
As a Grade G (UK) mental health nurse who has worked in mental health for ten years, including 4 years in an acute admissions ward, it is my educated opinion that to expose abused children, or those with learning disabilities, to further intimidation and fear is counterproductive

Hello liquidacid.

Would I be right in assuming that you have children of your own? You say that what Neverose had to say was not relevant to this discussion. I cannot disagree more with you on that point. I need to know more about you. You might be a highly qualified nurse, but still lacking in parental experience or responsibility. Perhaps you would be so kind as te clarify?

[Rat Faced]

There is also more than one type of "Boot Camp" for unruly kids, so what is meant by the name "Boot Camp" should be clarified.



There are State run "Boot Camps" which are in essence, a last resort punishment for offenders.

There are also Private Boot Camps, at which parents pay $1000's per month to send their kids, to try and instill some sort of Discipline and recognition from Right/Wrong.......so that they DONT end up in the first type.


If its the 1st type, this is obviously a criticism of a Penal System.

If the 2nd type, then a critcism of people caring enough to pay LOTS of money as a last resort to stop their kids becoming part of the Criminal Classes.


In neither case im sure, would a mentaly disturbed child be placed, if diagnosed as such.....which is a criticism of the Social Services and Medical proffesions (and their Political Masters)