Should Acct trades be allowed here?

[mrnobody]

squirr3l I think we all agree that account trading is much worse than invite trading.

I do agree but i don't think everyone agrees with that. There are many users here who don't see different between account trading and invite trading at all. Hell, there are bunch who don't even perceive trading as bad. "It's my account, it's my invite...i can do w/e i want with it", have we not heard this plenty of times here?

Let's assume that account trades were not allowed here.
Would it really matter if someone offered an ftn/fsc/its with closed invitation system and didn't mention whether it was an account or invite?
It would be pretty obvious that it would be an account, since there wouldn't be any invites and thus, violating the FST rules (apart from the trackers' rules)

I was taking in general, not being specific down to a tracker. btw, iTS invites are open

So, what if someone vaugly offers a tracker with open invitation? How are you gonna differentiate between an account trade and invite trade? Should FST staff go through PM of each and every suspects? Should there be another rule that says "be specific with your offer"?

I think there is just too much trouble that comes with this nonsense. Just ban the whole damn trading or let it ALL out.

Not allowing account trades would be a decisive first step in the right direction. A gesture of good will towards the trackers in general (and not only those that came into an agreement) and I believe trackers wouldn't be ungrateful to that, since FST would take some load of work out of their shoulders. (and out of the shoulders of their middlemen )

FST staff aren't here to make tracker staff's job easy lol

If they were, they would be giving 'em IP's (which they don't), FST wouldn't have place for traders (when it is), there won't be WIAW thread (which i am sure most tracker staffer dislike), there won't be giveaway for site that do not like giveaway (bitme, bitmetv, what.cd), there won't be thread or post mentioning site that do not like publicity (rabbit, wheel, lossless etc). Leaving all that, how on earth FST staffer see account trading as a way to make tracker staffer's job easy, eh?

I have to say that there is at least one favor FST does to tracker staffer. FST brings all trader in one place; that way tracker staff don't have to visit random forum hunting traders instead they can just visit FST and get 'em all here lol

[grimms]

The only favor i can see is: FST brings all trader in one place, that way tracker staff don't have to visit random forum hunting traders instead they can just visit FST and get 'em all here lol

I agree with you there. I hate the fact that trading could still be around regardless of this polls outcome, but if it is? I think FST should at least consider two seperate sections to quarantine the trading/giveaway problem better.Have strict penalties for trading in the giveaway section and vice versa. This is obviously if FST staff decide to keep things the way they are currently(Which i hope they don't)

Current stats:

yes: 109
no:118

This is a close race folks.

[Actatoi]

I have to say that there is at least one favor FST does to tracker staffer. FST brings all trader in one place; that way tracker staff don't have to visit random forum hunting traders instead they can just visit FST and get 'em all here lol

That's nowhere like it's now, and why would traders continue staying here if they notice that everyone are getting disabled when trading at FST?

After watching some trackers forum when their users notice trading and such I would say FST are in a minority of those. Atleast for those trackers I'm in. And why not make FST a better place overall for what their userbase wants. If a yes goes through it will make FST's reputation for those that have hated it a small step forward. I mean there are a lot of people still thinking that anyone registered and posting at FST is a bastard. My opinion is that that should change. But It won't, but a yes here would be a little better. I like FST and I enjoy the whole forum, and the 'bit-tard' section. Though not the invite forum lately since it's just too much for me. And It would be nice for me seeing it getting more respect from those people not respecting it.

And I don't get why some are saying that because other forum have shit, why should FST have it as well.

Ps my personal opinion that it's "shit".

Peace Act.

[mrnobody]

But bear with me... if this is about tracker rules let´s not get hypocritical here. Most main trackers consider breaking their rules giving away invites. If you want to respect trackers rules you can't "half respect" them. Either you do or you don't. Any "half measure" is either a first stage to total banishement of the invite section ( which is, of course, what most members that voted 'no' want ) or just doesn't make any sense at all.

yeah, it's like saying "i somewhat love u"

Now, if you told me that there was to be some kind of compromise between FST and tracker's staff that would be a totally different thing. At least the poll would make sense. If, for instance, banning the trading/giving of accounts would allow FST to have an invite forum without having tracker's staff all over it that would make some sense although I don't see how that could be guaranteed... Anyway, is there a formal compromise? Even only the start of something remotely close to a compromise?

CR was the type of compromise you are talking about.

But i don't think banning all account trade is a compromise by ANY mean. I agree that some ex-CR will keep their end and let invite trade pass by their nose. However, ALL staffer for sure won't. We have seen ex-CR ignore the CR rule and yet ban FSTer for invite trading so what guarantees that a random staff won't ban just coz FST doesn't allow account trading? They for sure will. In fact, they will get more time to go after invite trader coz there won't be any (very negligible at least) account trader to change after lol

[Detale]

I totally agrre with what squirr3l has said. Having said this let me just add...

The point here is should FST have an invite forum at all.

I noticed that many that voted no also added " no trader here " and things like that. The issue that is really beeing debated here is if, in the end, we should give/trade invites/accounts at all.

Saying "trading accounts" is just a mild way of starting to get to the bottom of this cause we can't think of anything much worser than trading accounts, can we? It will even make a few of us that actually have rep points vote "no". It's clever.

But bear with me... if this is about tracker rules let´s not get hypocritical here. Most main trackers consider breaking their rules giving away invites. If you want to respect trackers rules you can't "half respect" them. Either you do or you don't. Any "half measure" is either a first stage to total banishement of the invite section ( which is, of course, what most members that voted 'no' want ) or just doesn't make any sense at all.

Now, if you told me that there was to be some kind of compromise between FST and tracker's staff that would be a totally different thing. At least the poll would make sense. If, for instance, banning the trading/giving of accounts would allow FST to have an invite forum without having tracker's staff all over it that would make some sense although I don't see how that could be guaranteed... Anyway, is there a formal compromise? Even only the start of something remotely close to a compromise?

What I am definitelly against is not knowing where we really stand... worse... where the FST staff stands on this and I can't see how a poll started under these circunstances can help us getting anywhere.

It seems that you guys are divided among those who believe that the best is to just give in to tracker's pressure and those who have a more commercial view on the issue and know perfectly well that every time we look at the main board half of the FST population is dwelling on the bitorrent section and that most of those are regular visitors of the invites sub-forum. IMHO, there is, unfortunatelly, no middle ground here ( unless something like I said above is actually possible)

I'm talking as an FST member debating an FST problem because I think that is what this really is. We can open another poll/thread if we want to discuss tracker's concerns.

" The point here is should FST have an invite forum at all."
Ummmm no the point here, as I started the thread, is to see what the members here wanted.

"Saying "trading accounts" is just a mild way of starting to get to the bottom of this cause we can't think of anything much worser than trading accounts, can we?"

Sure I can think of about 10 but the first one that comes to mind is Account Selling.

"What I am definitelly against is not knowing where we really stand... worse... where the FST staff stands on this and I can't see how a poll started under these circunstances can help us getting anywhere."

Umm we are trying to find out where the members stand here. Wherever the FST staff stand is their business and even if my personal feelings are against some rule here I will do as I always have done and that is protect FST members and Uphold FST rules. What "Circumstances" are you referring to?

" It seems that you guys are divided among those who believe that the best is to just give in to tracker's pressure " What! what does this even mean? FST has NEVER given in to "pressure" from ANY Tracker lets not forget FST has been here before the BT section when it was a Kazza forum so I think you should do some better research before you post seemingly uninformed things like this.

*If FST want some respect from tracker staff; it should respect trackers rules. a yes to the poll means a mid-finger pointing upward to the tracker rule and staff.
*If this is forum is made venue for treading Acct. there is little different is this forum allow the discussion of cheat scrips and how best to cheat. Both break tracker rules and both lead to a ban.
*This forum is a great place to learn about filesharing; don't spoil it by teaching people to break the rules. This forum gain nothing if acct threading is allowed; only more threaders and rule breakers. ie meaning problem. We will lost more than we gain.

Who ever said that FSt wants or cares about respect from tracker staff!?

[mrnobody]

I have to say that there is at least one favor FST does to tracker staffer. FST brings all trader in one place; that way tracker staff don't have to visit random forum hunting traders instead they can just visit FST and get 'em all here lol

That's nowhere like it's now, and why would traders continue staying here if they notice that everyone are getting disabled when trading at FST?

i am not good at being sarcastic, am i?

And why not make FST a better place overall for what their userbase wants. If a yes goes through it will make FST's reputation for those that have hated it a small step forward.

key word = If

the poll result says it all.

I mean there are a lot of people still thinking that anyone registered and posting at FST is a bastard. My opinion is that that should change.

Yeah, i have seen people with that attitude but their attitude is non of my business.

edit: sounds like there won't be new rule disallowing account trading :erm:

[kirktrix]

I voted NO. Here in FST or other BT forums user must be responsible to their accounts.

[Neo]

[/QUOTE]
" It seems that you guys are divided among those who believe that the best is to just give in to tracker's pressure " What! what does this even mean? FST has NEVER given in to "pressure" from ANY Tracker lets not forget FST has been here before the BT section when it was a Kazza forum so I think you should do some better research before you post seemingly uninformed things like this.
[/quote]

I'm sorry for this statement. I should have, in fact, informed myself better. What I meant ( even with that broken english ) is that there must indeed be a lot of pressure and that your members are in fact beeing hunted down. I also meant that there must be those among you that feel that trading should just disappear altogether... and that there are those that, for various reasons, think it shouldn't. If there was unanimous feeling about this we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place... I just would like to know what's is the general feeling if there is any.

About the "trading accounts" bit... well, of course there is worse but I guess not here.

The "current circunstances" are everything that has happened lately with the CR stuff and the increased pressure that traders/giveawayers are feeling here and how that should/would mobilize those who are against them in a "let's-finish-them-off" kind of way.

I, myself, don't have a completely formed opinion about this. I'm just trying to discuss it and pointing out some issues that I feel are important. I'm trying to weight the pros and cons of all this.

You addressed parts of my post that are not that well explained or not that well put or even where I'm plainly wrong but I would really like you to also comment on this sentence:

Most main trackers consider breaking their rules giving away invites. If you want to respect trackers rules you can't "half respect" them. Either you do or you don't. Any "half measure" is either a first stage to total banishement of the invite section ( which is, of course, what most members that voted 'no' want ) or just doesn't make any sense at all.

It is because of what is implied by me here that I can't really see the point of the poll... that is if it will be the base for a future FST policy on the issue.

To be very blunt: it is clear now that 'No's' will win, even if by a relatively small margin. May I ask what will happen then.

Cheers.

Neo

[Brandon]

I sorta skimmed through the last portion of this thread so far.. Some of the posts were long and time is short.. Anyways, I'll comment on some of the earlier posts.

Accounts are personal. They were given to you by a friend, or someone that trusted you and wanted to share with YOU.. You do not own the account, which is why you can be disabled at any time for any reason.. Therefore technically you do not have the right to give that account away for any reason.

Should it be allowed? No. Not respectfully at least unless FST wants a lot of enemies who have a lot of influence. Should you FST users want FST to allow it? I would say no.. Why? It creates a hostile environment, and with the recent changes in certain deals made between FST and other staff, there's already an underground staff link that's now effectively trading your (yes, you users) info, including your IP's, your emails, etc. In the long run, this is a bad thing because pretty soon even invite traders will be easily caught and then you also will be pissed off when a trade goes bad and you get nothing out of it.

i concur that, but it's unfortunate that staffers are logging personal details of members without telling us?

That can go two ways. For a staff members view, we could say it's unfortunate you're trading and or selling/using our invites or accounts as currency without our upfront knowledge. If you play dirty, you can't expect us to not play dirty as well.

lol, this is by far the WORST place to ask this question... ur posting in a trading forum whether or not acct trading should be allowed. Who u think looks at this forum section the most?

That's like me going to bar and asking if alcohol should be served.

I thought the same thing. by the way, bacardi black please!

and BTW, my vote was NO

Right on!

In fact i am very much against account trading, but i voted yes, it should be allowed.

And why is this, u ask? because the fact is that people that really want to trade an account will do it, no matter if it is here or at another place, and the probability of finding more "dangerous" users to a tracker is probably higher than here, that many people know each other, and a lot of staff roams at the invites section.

All in all, continuing to allow trading accounts here will minimize the risk of unwanted users joining a tracker, which is far higher at some other places. Think of it as an instrument for tracker's staff.
Ok, some won't get caught, but the ones that escape probably aren't as much of an issue if they come from a place where everyone knows everyone and that if u mess up after a trade, your ass is fried.

There will always be account trading, whether be it here or somewhere else.

just my 2 cents

I disagree with you on some points. Yes they will do it elsewhere, but it's still getting the scum off at least part of the street so to say. It's like ur saying "people are going to murder no matter what, so why not just let them hang out on the streets?"


At least we know there's one less place on the internet where people are abusing our time, effort, and kindness.

[hussam]

I think we should create new category called trading and anyone wanna go there has to register for it so will be marked as TRADER lol .