Land Of The Free? Imprisonment Without Trial

[clocker]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@12 September 2003 - 22:03

Just for us American thickos, why don't you tell us, in very precise and exact terms, why 9/11 "happened"?

Yeah, like you'd listen, or give a f*ck!

Doesn't seem to have deterred you yet, Billy.

Why the sudden reticence?

[Billy_Dean]

Run out of issues Clocko? Good! I'm glad I've taught you a few things.

[clocker]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@12 September 2003 - 22:24
Run out of issues Clocko? Good! I'm glad I've taught you a few things.

Feel free to add "what you've taught me" to your explanation of why 9/11 happened, Billy.

C'mon.

You know you want to.

[Billy_Dean]

I'm a bit stoned at the moment Clocko, and I've got Little Feat on real loud, not really conducive to serious matters. It is Saturday after all, a day of football, live music and good company.

And of course I include you lot in that.

[clocker]

Dixie Chicken I hope.

[Billy_Dean]

"Waiting For Columbus" the live album. "Spanish Moon" on at the moment, "Dixie Chicken" next, 8.36 minute live version.



B)

[AussieSheila]

Originally posted by clocker@13 September 2003 - 03:01

Australia is losing international respect. Our cherished reputation as an independant-thinking, larrikin, fair state has dissolvedHe assumes that a independant, fair (I don't even know what "larrikin" means) state can't agree with the US without losing their status.

I'm not so sure Russell was right when he said we were losing international respect. I dont really think the people on the other side of the world really give a crap what we think, say or do. But I think we have lost respect for ourselves and our government, by being dragged into a war which the majority of us thought was wrong. Time has proven us right, America has dropped the ball and Iraq is a mess and getting messier.

To clean up the mess, Bush says we have to make more sacrifices, human life and financial. To ensure that no American dies on American soil at the hands of terrorists we all have to go over to Iraq and wipe out the problem. Since when has violence on this scale (or any scale) solved anything? The terrible aftermath of war takes how long to recover from? How can the Iraqi people ever feel anything but fear and resentment towards the Western invaders? The terrible fear that these ever so ordinary people have had to live with for so long must be overwhelming, not to mention psychologically horribly damaging. Or don't they matter?

IMO if a poofteenth of the money spent on this disgusting war were spent on protecting and educating the women of the Middle East we might begin to see real change. There just might be a chance for peace.

That is, supposing this were not all about oil, money and power which it so is. Would America ever have bothered with the Middle East if there were no oil there? Of course not! Some of the companies involved in the 'rebuilding' of Iraq have direct links to high ranking Bush officials, they will do very nicely out of this, and after all, their own nearest and dearest aren't in any direct danger. Then there is the power and glory aspect, although I think that one has backfired somewhat. Still, George Bush and his band of merry murderers will be remembered in history, albeit as modern day Hitler type people.

[AussieSheila]

Originally posted by clocker@13 September 2003 - 03:01

Nearly 90 Australians died in Bali because of perceptions by extremists that this country is a military and ideological lackey of the United States.
Those poor people died, not because they were Aussies, but because they had the misfortune of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The terrorists who set off that bomb had no way of knowing who might be killed and furthermore, they didn't care.

No, they died because they were Aussies. Aussies were targeted on this occasion, partly, I think, because of our ties with the US. The rest of it is extreme fundamentalist crap. The opinions of the convicted Bali bombers are well known in Australia, perhaps not so well known over there. But these people make no secret of their hatred, they are very vocal. The terrorists knew exactly just who might be killed. And that included more Balinese than anyone else. Again, totally innocent people doing their best to earn a living in a harsh world, including small children who were begging. Do they matter?

To say the terrorists had no way of knowing who would be killed is purely stupid.

[clocker]

Originally posted by AussieSheila@13 September 2003 - 06:43


To say the terrorists had no way of knowing who would be killed is purely stupid.

I'm sorry, none of the coverage I saw of that tragedy expounded on the specific targeting of Australians.
I'm sure that was of much greater import to the news media over there.

That does not make me "purely stupid", just not as well informed as you.

Something you may want to keep in mind when you ponder the coverage YOU see about events here in the States.

[ilw]

these ever so ordinary people

yes they are frightfully common aren't they

Since when has violence on this scale (or any scale) solved anything?

WWII

why does everyone think that oil is such a weak reason for going in? Oil is one of the single most important resources in determining a country's future

Bringing up the Hitler comparison is a bit weak, I'm sure there are a lot better comparisons out there, maybe not quite as emotive, but a lot more accurate.

IMO if a poofteenth of the money spent on this disgusting war were spent on protecting and educating the women of the Middle East we might begin to see real change.

Tell me more about how this would bring peace.
(Just an aside BBC will be doing a debate on Monday about women in Islam in case anyone is interested. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/s...am/3094894.stm)