Land Of The Free? Imprisonment Without Trial

[clocker]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@13 September 2003 - 11:35


As for your comment,

"the perceptions of extremists"

, isn't that what all our government's policies are based on? Isn't the war on terrorism a reaction to their perception of us? Or is 10 pots of beer clouding my mind? You know, I'd forgotten just how good a song "Dyna-Moh- Hum was!



B)

I much prefer Montana, but that is neither here nor there.

Whether or not you agree with my government's actions ( or yours, either), I really hope that they are not driven or dictated by the "perceptions of terrorists".

The perception of America ( and now, Australia, apparently) is that we are the Great Satan and need to be eradicated.
Wanna agree with that?
Think we should alter foreign policy to accomodate this idea?
Maybe march, lemminglike, into the sea?

Maybe when they alter their behaviour to accomodate my "perception" of them...


Sleep tight, Billy.

[Billy_Dean]

Sorry Clocko, we seem to be saying the same thing here from different angles. Perception OF them, and perception of THEM.

But ...

The perception of America ( and now, Australia, apparently) is that we are the Great Satan and need to be eradicated.

I guess this is where we disagree. I understand the evidence for this one is on your side, so you'll have to put this down to my opinion. I believe their aims are political. I believe they include, Saudi Arabia, the holy of holies to muslims, Israel \ Palestine, obviously, Iraq, and any other muslim country they see the US interfering in the politics of.

If you look really closely at the politics in Iran at the moment, you'll see a balancing act between democracy, (yes, in Iran&#33 and the Mullahs. The key there is the people, not many years ago the mullahs ran the place without question. The truth now is that the people want democracy.

Montana is indeed an awesome track. Better without the hangover maybe!



B)

[Billy_Dean]

But Bush cited the U.S. military victories in Afghanistan and Iraq as examples of the strides the United States has made in cracking down on anti-American militants and those who might harbour them or provide them with weapons of mass destruction.

A little quiz for my American friends. The above quote was from a news report.

Can you spot what really pisses a lot of people off in the above quote?

Clue: It's what's not there.



B)

[clocker]

If you look really closely at the politics in Iran at the moment, you'll see a balancing act between democracy, (yes, in Iran&#33 and the Mullahs. The key there is the people, not many years ago the mullahs ran the place without question. The truth now is that the people want democracy

Funny you should bring this up.

Before we invaded Iraq I saw a talk show where a expert on the Middle East was talking about the aftermath of the proposed "liberation". Despite the Bush administration's fantasy theory that we would be able to impose a democracy on Iraqis, he thought that almost certainly the natural course of events would lead to a mullah-lead theocracy.
He went on to say, using Iran as the prime example, that, if we just laid back for 10-15 years, the people would begin to clamor for more freedom and a voice in their government.

Iran has had a fairly stable society for the last generation- they have plenty of oil to sell and, despite the best efforts of the ruling theocrats, western influences have crept in.
Give'em satellite dishes and guess what? Even 5yr. old Arab kids wanna be like Mike.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

This guy could see two likely scenarios...

In the first, some sort of weird amalgamation of a democracy and a more traditional Arab monarchy is hammered out.

In the second, the ruling theocrats, in an effort to divert focus from unrest at home, turn the dissatisfaction towards the West and fan the flames of radical Islam.

I'm hoping for the first while dreading the second.

[MeMeMeSoHony]

For those who do not live in the USA or dont read many newspapers , online or offline (print) or websites ..anything dedicated to reporting "news" wont know much about the american justice system. Look what the prisoners are going are going through is jail without bond( i think) . There are thousands of ilegal "aliens" in the US and some are kept in jails for months , even years. Without knowing when they will be released , and thats just ilegal aliens. Now "terrorists" (they wont see em as 'suspected terrorists&#39 So ya know Yeah you cant buy beer but you can go and fight for the USA and loose ur life , awesome huh?

[AussieSheila]

Originally posted by MeMeMeSoHony@14 September 2003 - 06:49
So ya know Yeah you cant buy beer but you can go and fight for the USA and loose ur life , awesome huh?

B) Oh, ever such a good point MeMeSoHony! WHY are children sent to fight wars?

[MeMeMeSoHony]

Yep , i knew some of the people that have died over there. Also here in the area i live a story came out in the newspaper. A woman who lost her two sons in North Korea is getting $12.05(dollars) per son , per month . She's 90 .....and thats all she gets.....

[Billy_Dean]

@ Shelley ..

Iám wondering what world you live in ? WHO is going to protect and educate the women of the Middle East ?

I'm wondering what world you live in ? Are you saying women can't be educated? Are you saying we shouldn't bother trying, because of their past treatment?

Strange post!


B)

[AussieSheila]

Originally posted by shelly@13 September 2003 - 15:06

As a German woman whos Govt. didn´t join this war,(Which I didn´t agree with) Iám wondering what world you live in ? WHO is going to protect and educate the women of the Middle East ? The men from the Middle East ? The Taliban ? The Middle Eastern Men? Come on join the real world these Men have abused women from the beginning of the Human race do you think a few dollars will change their mind over night. What the Americans did in Afghanistan and Iraq where right even though its not working Ideally at this time.

If the allies didnt go against Hitler where would we be now. Hitler & Saddam two of the same Iám afraid.

Imprisonment Without Trial no don´t agree with that, we had the Nürnberg Trials which were run by the Americans why not the same in this case ?

No, actually I don't think their minds will be changed overnight but I think it would be a start. Because this persecution has been going on since the beginning of time, does that mean it's right? That it has to go on? The world is becoming aware of the problem, therefore the problem can't go on being ignored.

@MeMeSoHony.......if I were a mother of any age that lost two sons in a war, I wouldn't want to live. At 90, I'd be checking out mate, couldn't bear the pain.

[MeMeMeSoHony]

@AussieSheila , yeah me too. But she's a fighter...not a quiter..... her sons were the same i suppose. Rick Perry governor of Texas , actually made some cuts to help the elderly and to help the old veterans....like from WW2 and Vietnam and stuff like that. I know ilegal aliens that get twice in aid as those who fought for this country. So much crap in Texas right now