G.o.d (((((((((athiest))))))))))

[cowswithguns]

IMO Religion may give some people a false sense of strength and promise of eternal life but I'm one who believes that it has more to answer for than it may give.

It perpetuates itself in fear and is the cause of a great proportion of the world's discontent.

As far as I'm concerned you can shove it.

[hobbes]

BD

Religion is for people who can't comprehend reallity.

So you agree with me then?

I don't know, maybe. I'm not sure what believing in reality is exactly. I believe I am sitting in a chair, but how does this belief explain initial creation? Reality is a perception which is limited by our crude senses. We have learned from animals, radioactive materials and electronics that huge amounts of "reality" are imperceptable to us. We have captured some of this information with technology, but how much more is out there of which we have no clue. So it is apparent that alot more is going on than we can perceive, there is a existence which is beyond our perceptions (what we call "reality"). The basic question everyone wants answered is why is there mass, space and time. How can we explain it? How did we get here?

Hobbes

Again, Billy your humility and general ebullient style makes this any other post to treasure

Why do I need humility when talking about religions that tell people like you and I that we are going to burn in hell?


Just a little inside barb. You have so many nice comments about American arrogance, I figured you would be the poster child of Australian modesty. Just letting you get a little insight into how you come across.

What if they are right? Is it possible. A humble man might consider the possibility. Well, I don't think they are right either, but no need to be nasty about it, eh? Just ruffle their hair and send them off for icecream.


I just noticed the signature by CWG's- you fellows ARE a modest lot.

[Biggles]

J2K4

I profess no great knowledge on US Constitutional affairs. Indeed I think I am right in saying that it is area of rich pickings for lawyers as they weave their own peculiar brand of magic in trying to develop new and interesting interpretations.

I also don't know much about the lump of rock - other than it sounded quite large and heavy (clearly not designed to hang in a tastefully discrete frame )

I think ultimately in any such situation, it is the intent of the individual rather than the act itself. The judge in question is unknown in these parts and consequently I can pass no comment with regards his intent. Those local are much better placed to examine the dynamics of the situation.

Much more interesting is the concept of "The Rights of Man". Although I am sure the founding fathers had only the highest motives I doubt whether any social edifice can truly defy the ill-intended. But then again, some safeguards are better than none.

I would be interested in what people think their rights are, and are they safeguarded or not? Without being too boring perhaps we could limit it to essential rights (is the right to party essential? ... perhaps. )

I fear that although almost all religions do have a set of moral codes and, by and large, the basic tenets of these codes are the same, a theocracy is not a happy place to be. Perhaps I am being constricted by my own cultural boundaries, but I think I prefer a liberal democracy to any other form government. Of course, liberal democracies are messy and largely ill-disciplined and dis-organised. but what better way to keep at bay those who "know" what is best for us? Not the most visionary political standpoint I know. I think rather it is one borne out of seeing government in action over the years.

Sorry this has strayed off topic a little. The Rights of Man and God is there a link?

PS Thank you for your kind words Hobbes and Clocker - I never thought of Biggles as a clown before but it has a certain fit even if you are familiar with the books.

[chalice]

I never thought of Biggles as a clown, wot, wot?
Chocks away, old Bean.

[Biggles]

Well.... when you put it like that

It all seemed like daring do when I was 12

[MagicNakor]

Now here's a question posed by a French philosopher; unfortunately, I cannot remember his name.

A man slept. And while he slept, he dreamt. In his dream, he went to Paradise. While in Paradise, he picked a flower. When he awoke, the flower was on his pillow.

Note: If you want, substitute Paradise for Heaven, Valhalla, the Elysian Fields, and so on. He chose Paradise so that every religion was covered.

[Biggles]

I am intrigued.

What was the question?

[clocker]

Originally posted by MagicNakor@16 September 2003 - 17:07
Now here's a question posed by a French philosopher; unfortunately, I cannot remember his name.

A man slept. And while he slept, he dreamt. In his dream, he went to Paradise. While in Paradise, he picked a flower. When he awoke, the flower was on his pillow.

Note: If you want, substitute Paradise for Heaven, Valhalla, the Elysian Fields, and so on. He chose Paradise so that every religion was covered.

OK.

I follow the set-up, but what is the question?

Is this some sort of Zen thing?

[hobbes]

Originally posted by MagicNakor@17 September 2003 - 01:07
Now here's a question posed by a French philosopher; unfortunately, I cannot remember his name.

A man slept. And while he slept, he dreamt. In his dream, he went to Paradise. While in Paradise, he picked a flower. When he awoke, the flower was on his pillow.

Note: If you want, substitute Paradise for Heaven, Valhalla, the Elysian Fields, and so on. He chose Paradise so that every religion was covered.

Sleepwalker, obviously. I do it myself. Flowers are everywhere. I won't tell you what I woke up with the night I dreamt of Hell.

Since he was asleep, he probably should have awoken with the flower clutched in his hand. Maybe a friend placed the flower next to him. He could smell the aroma and his mind incorporated it into the dream.

Don't most questions come with a "?", somewhere?

[MagicNakor]

Okay, I goofed. I forgot the question. It's being paraphrased, though, since I don't remember it exactly.

How would you live, knowing that Paradise does exist, and that it is possible to attain?

Of course, you don't know what'll let you in, or keep you out...

It's not really a Zen thing - someone I know called this one "a mindfuck."

However, there is a Zen one that was before this one in the conversation - Enlightenment is looking at the sun and realising that it is round.