G.o.d (((((((((athiest))))))))))

[Snee]

I thought he'd incorporated a bit too much wishful thinking into the mix myself. But I too felt it was interesting to say the least.

Edit: in regards to the link.

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@19 September 2003 - 04:16
@jpaul:

I love it when people, who are happy to abuse and name-call others get onto the moral high ground and demand an apology when someone is "nasty" to them.

First off, who did I demand an apology from? Read first JP, answer after.

I also love it when people talk about what they are and aren't as if others should know this. The only way people know you here is thro' what you write and how you write it. So if someone forms an opinion of you it is based on your own words.

Have I ever had a problem with that? Play me, not my friends.


I find it rather ironic that you should be defending the catholic church from a charge of brainwashing. I would have thought with all the shit and misery they have caused to so many people, and continue to cause, that an accusation like that was small fry.
I stand by my words, teaching religion, any religion, to young kids, who don't understand both sides is wrong, and an attempt to instill a doctrine before the child is old enough to make up their own mind.
The point you make about people being raised in a non religious way, then finding faith, reinforces my view, there is no need to force it on kids.


As to bashing Islam, be my guest, who cares. I personally find that it's judaism that is untouchable, not islam. I guess I'm anti-semetic, at least, I hope I am.



B)

1. I did not say you had asked for an apology - you chose that shoe yourself.

2. I said I was a Catholic and defended the Catholic Faith. As with many organisations, particularly the older ones there are almost inevitably dark times and people who align themselves to it. I do not believe that I defended the Catholic Church.

3. People are also taught atheism. By the example of their parents and those around them. This is no different.

4. Your views are yours and you have the right to express them. Disagreeing with soemone however is an entirely different thing from attacking what they believe.

[lynx]

Originally posted by SnnY@19 September 2003 - 16:48
"evidence of a designed universe"

Good for a laugh at least.

(Sorry Chalice, this is a bit more on-topic)

It seems to me that he is taking natural facts, and using them as evidence that they are a bit too convenient for us to have been placed sonewhere with just the right conditions. He seems to ignore the obvious possibility that had the conditions for life been different, that we might have come to exist in another place.

In other words, it is not coincidence, the fact that the right conditions exist is the reason why we are here rather than a place which would not support life. Indeed, if the conditions for life were different, there is sufficient diversity in the universe to ensure that life would still have come to exist, although such life may not be in places which we would regard as habitable, never mind hospitable.

While I would not question his knowledge of Engineering and Materials Science, it seems doubtful if his skills in logic are all that well developed. He probably believes that if all mice are grey and all mice make holes in your walls, then everything that is grey makes holes in your walls. I hope he never gets elephants.

[Billy_Dean]

I love it when people, who are happy to abuse and name-call others get onto the moral high ground and demand an apology when someone is "nasty" to them.

I'm quoting you here JP, your words.

4. Your views are yours and you have the right to express them. Disagreeing with soemone however is an entirely different thing from attacking what they believe.

How about when their religion, by it's own doctrine, is an attack on me? When a religion claims "their way" and their beliefs are the only true path, and their followers are the only ones who will find "salvation", is that not an attack on me?

"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therefore he will be served by animals in human form."

Can I not attack this, because it is someone's belief?

[Snee]

@lynx: it may be mad, but it's still an interesting perspective, no?

@billy_dean: I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't believe that modern jews live by this belief to any larger extent, and at any rate they do acknowledge that you have the potential at least to become human since there always is the option to convert

[Billy_Dean]

Originally posted by SnnY@20 September 2003 - 04:09
@billy_dean: I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't believe that modern jews live by this belief to any larger extent, and at any rate they do acknowledge that you have the potential at least to become human since there always is the option to convert

Are you sure about that?

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by SnnY@19 September 2003 - 19:09
@lynx: it may be mad, but it's still an interesting perspective, no?

@billy_dean: I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't believe that modern jews live by this belief to any larger extent, and at any rate they do acknowledge that you have the potential at least to become human since there always is the option to convert

In any religion, Fundamentalism is wrong.

An ultra-orthodox Jew would not speak to you if he could help it, and certainly would not invite you into a social gathering...exactly because he believes this.

An ultra-orthodox jew barely recognises other jews, if they are not ultra-orthodox.


Thankfully, most Jews are not ultra-orthodox, just like most muslims and christians are not fundamentalist.

People should be judged by who they are, not on a misunderstanding as to their beliefs, based on a generalization.


I would also ask you to look into conversion.....its not easy to convert to Judaism.

You have to prove you have a jewish soul 1st.....

This is the one Religion of the world not trying to save you, conversion is actively discouraged by Rabbi's. You either have a Jewish soul or dont...its upto you to prove it. If you dont, your not one of the chosen....simple.

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@19 September 2003 - 20:03

I love it when people, who are happy to abuse and name-call others get onto the moral high ground and demand an apology when someone is "nasty" to them.

I'm quoting you here JP, your words.

4. Your views are yours and you have the right to express them. Disagreeing with soemone however is an entirely different thing from attacking what they believe.

How about when their religion, by it's own doctrine, is an attack on me? When a religion claims "their way" and their beliefs are the only true path, and their followers are the only ones who will find "salvation", is that not an attack on me?

"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therefore he will be served by animals in human form."

Can I not attack this, because it is someone's belief?

Are you being obtuse - who mentioned your name. I certainly did not. You quote me - probably a good idea to read the quote. Like I said earlier, if you chose to try that particular shoe on and found that it fit that is a matter between you and .... you.

When did I attack your belief in atheism (if that's not a contradiction in terms). I have never described you as an animal, I have nothing against animals. Neither have I cast scorn on what was programed into your brain.

You have every right to defend yourself, at least I believe so. However that is entirely different from scattergun attacks on anyone who happens to believe in a deity.

[Snee]

My point (if I had one was) A. That most jews don't live by those, somewhat skewed ideals

And B. That they acknowledge the possibility of you "being human" if it's up to you to prove, it certainly makes it harder, but there is still a chance, although slimmer than I would have liked to think.

And yes fundamentalism is wrong, and come to think of it so is most forms of organized religion, given the amount of misery it has caused during centuries passed.

But you certainly can't judge anyone on the basis of their particular beliefs alone,
unless, of course, those beliefs involve an enforced lack of acceptance towards the rest of mankind.

Edit: am I wrong in any way here?, any jews in the audience?

Edit again: @ratfaced: who were you aiming at?, I was a bit off with regards to the conversion bit, but I tried to say the same thing you did otherwise ie: most jews do not live with the belief that gentiles are animals.

[Billy_Dean]

[quote]Originally posted by JPaul@20 September 2003 - 04:26

I love it when people, who are happy to abuse and name-call others get onto the moral high ground and demand an apology when someone is "nasty" to them.

Come off it JP, this remark was aimed at me, and you know it was! You're like the kid with jam round his mouth, denying he'd had his fingers in the jar. Go read back, put your words in perspective, stop squirming.

You then go on to deny calling me an animal! Did someone accuse you of that too?

Religions feel free to attack anything they see fit, and do so all the time. When they are attacked back, they appeal for "respect" whilst showing little in return.

Someone once claimed that if it were not for the catholic church, man would have landed on the moon 1000 years ago. An interesting thought.