Here's a thought.

[saulin]

Ok look at torrentbits.ro

It started from scratch and what did they do. They let people in and always had free leech. What did SCC do, they let a lot of people in a always had free leech, plus they ahve some of the best uplaoders that can get stuff very quick.

You gotta do something especial to get people to join. Not only that but you have to have your own uplaod crew. You can't just rely on users to upload everything although it's a good idea to have users upload stuff as well. Look at Oink when it was alive. It was huge and everythign was so well seeded. People would always find stuff to upload.

Now Torrentbits and SCC and very descent trackers. However what you get soemtimes are trackers like SCN, RTS, or SCL. They want to keep a very low user database, they don't have what it takes to keep the torrents comming and end up dead with no leechers or seeders and they won't do anything to let more people in and to provide better quality.

[mrnobody]

Why is it that people are hellbent on getting into trackers that don't want or require new members, yet when some budding sysop comes along, announces a new site and invites everyone to join in, they tend to be shot down with "what makes your site so special", "what's different", "why should i join", etc.

If I was looking to get into new sites, I'd be jumping at the opportunity to take part in new communities and see where they lead.

At least I'd have a better chance of contributing something useful and have my foot in the door from the start.

So, if you're looking to join communities, next time a friendly face comes along and announces the launch of a new site, why not jump right in?

You've said it yourselves, you get the same files at the end of the day anyway

Or am I wrong?

most of those "trackers that don't want or require new members" are rare hence the demand (blame the WTAW thread lolz). Additionally, all of those sites have excellent security and have been around for ages hence have the trust of entire BT community.

Newbie trackers on the other hand are different. First, Most newbie trackers are run by new guys whom nobody has ever heard of. Before anyone can put "trust" on them they already seem to blew it up. Staffers in those trackers have no idea whatsoever they are doing, the owner of those sites seem to be more active in other-newly-found-tracker-that-they-got-by-promoting-someone-to-vip-or-staff- and have bunch other issues like regular downtime. Secondly, security is a major issue with new trackers. Bunch of them have or can easily get hacked Additionally, the for almost all new tracker content is 0-day again. Nothing wrong with having another 0-day tracker but the problem is that major userbase of those newbie tracker share member with another established 0-day tracker already. More that 80% of the userbase in a new 0-day tracker just waits there for the tracker to get established...they barely even leech from there. Why should they? After all they already have TL, ScT, RevTT, FTN or other good 0-day source is the type of mentality in almost all users. Imo, staffers of new 0-day tracker should try getting new peeps rather than recruiting those who are in 100s 0-day tracker already!

P.S. When i think of a "successful" newbie tracker, less that 5 trackers come to my head :-\ Cinemageddon was prolly one of the best newbie tracker (apart from hydras like what, waffles) for last year. This year, the CG team came up with tv-vault. Amazing run so far...and will surely be one of the best newbie tracker for this year.

[respawn40]

As squirr3l said, I think one of the main reasons people seek trackers that have their doors closed are because those trackers have already been around the block a few times, and know exactly what they're doing. They figure the harder it is to get in, the more secure and well-run the tracker will be.

They've been established, so people know they're good. Who wants to go putting time and effort into a new tracker that has a great possibility of just fading away, through lack of SysOp interest, lack of participation, everything.

[killercam101]

As squirr3l said, I think one of the main reasons people seek trackers that have their doors closed are because those trackers have already been around the block a few times, and know exactly what they're doing. They figure the harder it is to get in, the more secure and well-run the tracker will be.

They've been established, so people know they're good. Who wants to go putting time and effort into a new tracker that has a great possibility of just fading away, through lack of SysOp interest, lack of participation, everything.

and people ask why I love this man...

[Eargasm]

It sucks when people dis new trackers even though I can see where they are coming from.

I think the issue people perceive is that new 0-day trackers appear pretty much everyday when there are already 100's out there that are "short" on members and are open registration. Therefor, you've got a bunch of lackluster sites instead of "focusing" on the ones that are already out there. From my perspective, it's not so bad as it seems - The more heads on this hydra the better.

The other issues I have, personally, with the majority of new trackers:

• I, like most people here, don't need them. I'm already a member of a couple 0-day sites and I'm pretty happy with them.
• New sites are often lax on security and get hacked frequently. This is a very real possibility for any site; yet, the chances decrease over time.
• The other dimension of security is the question of what are the founder's intentions with the site. If they are new then they will have to be around a while before anyone trusts them to be anything other than user/pass/email info collector site.
• You never know how long a new tracker will be around. Is this someone's pipe dream? How many trackers started up and within a month the bowl was cashed for good, and without anyone really noticing.
• A lot of people will say that people want into high lvl trackers because of e-penis. It's not always the case. If you take a good look at these sites they often have significant design, code, and other infrastructure improvements. They have community (yes some people care about community). They have built up their libraries and many users have invested a lot of time and love into them. These are things you don't usually get in most trackers.

Now that I've said that. People still join new trackers. However, it's usually because of who is behind it and/or because it's covers a desired niche. See my sig for example - TVV - new site. I'm already a die hard fan but then again I'm a die hard fan of it's sister site. Plus tracker developments (they are building upon gazelle) are very interesting to me.

[BlueLabel]

Why is it that people are hellbent on getting into trackers that don't want or require new members, yet when some budding sysop comes along, announces a new site and invites everyone to join in, they tend to be shot down with "what makes your site so special", "what's different", "why should i join", etc.

If I was looking to get into new sites, I'd be jumping at the opportunity to take part in new communities and see where they lead.

At least I'd have a better chance of contributing something useful and have my foot in the door from the start.

So, if you're looking to join communitiues, next time a friendly face comes along and announces the launch of a new site, why not jump right in?

You've said it yourselves, you get the same files at the end of the day anyway

Or am I wrong?

whats the point to be a member at 1000 trackers that they are all the same??
mostly its obay trackers with same releases, so I don't see any point to be in another one.
lets just say that if its new and unique tracker I will be happy to be a part of it.
just before 2-3 month ago someone in here talk about openning latin music tracker and thats something new and unique and me personly going to like it and I'm still waiting for it (maybe its running already and I didn't know).

[MDMAX]

its all about power and control like in the real life
ppl want to belong to trademark

no matter if it inferior

and they have short memory

[sokrates]

how can you compare scn rts and scl saulin? scl had open signups for a very long time.. and they opened them on a couple of occasions.. they even handed out invites to everyone a few times..
in an ideal world nobody would give a shit about the wtaw thread.. i only join trackers myself on a few occasions, bc i am already on quite a few.. the funny thing is the majority of my friends doesnt care about joining new trackers either no matter how rare they are. as a n00b i would gladly take the chance to join new trackers though.. i guess i would go to tpg for information gathering though
btw you know Squizzle they just want to join your tracker bc of your avatar right?

[integral]

In an ideal world, the WTAW thread and threads that give trackers an economic worth/value wouldn't exist. Sure, you could put forth the weak argument that everyone deserves to know about the trackers so everyone who is "worthy" can have an opportunity to get in.

But imagine how less trading there would be if the "rare" and "exclusive" trackers weren't openly advertised as they are. There would of course be less trading and less publicity for these trackers; half of the traders who wander onto this site, and others I'm sure, wouldn't even know trackers like FTN or FSC existed, therefore wouldn't attempt to trade for them. I mean come on, I see tons of request threads for trackers that people know literally NOTHING about, and are probably acquaintainces with no one on them.

Now imagine if only the 'What Trackers Offer' thread existed. Trackers like FTN would simply be in a list among a lot of other sites that offer similar things, and that's the way it should be. If trackers don't want to be in that list either, then they wouldn't be there.

This would also allow newer trackers to grow more easily. The WTAW thread poisons the minds of potential traders, scammers, collectors, and just plain superficial people; they see a ton of quality trackers at level 2, and completely ignore them; their lusting eyes drift off to the higher levels right away. And this carries on to new tracker threads. And as I started earlier in this thread, some new trackers really do need more work before they come out to play, but some people don't even give the tracker a chance: "No more new trackers!" "We already have enough!" are common taunts/jabs.

They'll always be traders and sellers, and even though a lot of minds have already been poisoned with the whole levels situation, I think things can be changed for the better.

[rvt]

I will agree that there does need to be an element of trust in starting a new tracker. Someone completely unkown to all is less likely to pull in any new users.
That's not to say anyone who is unknown is not trustworthy though.

But say someone known to a few people from other trackers as a member, not existing staff, opens a new site with general content. They've spent some time learning about tbdev and applying patches.
They make a post here, and BAM. Everyone jumps on them about how we don't need more 0-day sites, or how worthless they are compared to whatever the favourite tracker happens to be today. It also gets mentioned how they might just be in it for money.

Those new sites fail to pull in any new members, nobody takes a chance on donating even $10, and the sites go bust.
It becomes a vicious circle of "don't trust new sites, they fold in a month" and new sites folding in a month because nobody takes any chances.

So we're now left with the situation where you must either be pretty well known as tracker staff, or have plenty of money to open a new tracker that stands a good chance of success.
Those who have been tracker staff for a while are generally not interested in opening more trackers, and those who are rich to begin with tend to have made money by being sensible with money. They're the ones more likely to want a return on investment.

The situation could be combated by new trackers starting slow, small and cheap, on shared or underpowered hosting. The problem here however is that everyone complains if there's not enough users or torrents.
There's also complaints if the site manages to grow, as the old server slows down or there is downtime while moving to a new server. Moving to a new server quite often requires a setup fee and a months payment up front though, so it takes a few months to get the donations needed, leading to more complaints about how slow the site is.

For those reasons and others, I think it's almost impossible for new sites to succeed these days. The only chance we have of improving the situation is if people are willing to take a chance.

If the sysop seems knowledgeable enough about security and code, don't instantly assume the worst.
If they are humble enough to admit that they need help, and seek that help, then it's possible some of their code is being done by one (or even many) of the well known coders without you knowing it.
If a sysop has given you no reason to suspect they are only in it for the money, why not take a chance with $5 or $10? Sure they may end up doing a runner, but you may also end up helping the site to survive and grow stronger.

The hundreds of people supposedly looking for "community" should have no problem with the above. Communities are built by everyone pulling their weight. If you can offer time, money or skills, that's how you become part of a community.
Simply finding an established community and spamming up 6 month dead threads will not get you accepted by anyone.

@integral: With 20-30 sites, I'd still consider the whole torrent community underserved. 2000-3000 would be better.
If there were that many sites all with say 2-5000 users, they may not be as fast at getting the goods as established trackers, but they are hardly worth the effort of shutting down.
Does it really matter if you get your TV show or movie 30 minutes later than everyone else? Everyone claiming pretime is a massive factor should actually get off torrents and buy some ftp axx.

2000 trackers with 2000 users is only 4 million users. That's assuming each user is only on one site. If every user is on 2 sites, that's 2 million.
Given figures such as 1 million having downloaded the olympics opening ceremony, 4 million torrenters worldwide shouldn't be hard to find.