Short Prison Term

[Biggles]

J2K4

"Plastic surgery for the soul"! I suspect there may be a sci fi novel spawned from that gem.

[loz]

Taylor, whose name was entered on the sex offenders' register, was held on remand in Barlinnie Prison, Glasgow, but is likely to serve his sentence at Peterhead jail, which has a specialist sex offenders' unit.

What you have to think about is what really caused this person to do such a thing, I do believe in 90% of the cases the offender was once a victim of sexual abuse.

In other words if you are raped/ abused as a child you are a lot more likely to abuse than someone who was not sexually abused.

[yyiryyib]

he'll go in solitary cos he would get stabbed if he was with other prisoners. like that guy who tortured that little girl, he got a screwdriver in one of his eyes and he's been in solitary ever since

[sum_sicko]

i hope he gets shot, stabbed hung drawn and quatered, sick fuckin bastard, he should get LIFE

[j2k4]

I'm gonna play off my colleague Biggles' post here; I know good stuff when I see it.

I have a view that what are considered to be liberal judicial systems (ie no death penalty etc.,) belong not in weak societies but rather in ones where those in power feel little threat from those below. It is no surprise that the EU, an area where collective bargaining coupled with a reasonably strong social cohesion and effective means of social control (a kind of benevolent Big Brother) feels safe in dispensing with rougher forms of justice.

This would seem to be a trend born of centuries of proximity; Europe is, I think, probably the largest contiguous geographic area whose peoples have shared a roughly similar existence and culture for many years-this has bred a cultural familiarity, and, to the extent religion(s) have played any role, it has been minor (for quite awhile) as opposed to the Middle-East, for example.

The deterent effect of the latter is unproved. Often those countries with a somewhat sterner approach have higher rates of serious crime. This is neither caused by or detered by capital punishment. I believe the US still uses the death penalty precisely because in many ways it is a freer society. By that, I mean it is easier to disappear in the US and this sense of isolation from the collective (indeed amongst some in the US the very word would appear to be off-colour) causes concern at both the higher political level and in society in general. Capital punishment is therefore seen as a means to redress that lack of control. However, that is just a theory I have mulled over from time to time and am happy to modify or reject it if someone can throw further light on the issue.

At it's root, the death penalty is a tool of societal vengeance for most who practice it; by putting an offender to death, society serves notice of it's contempt for the crime (and the criminal), on one hand, and also it's fear of allowing such individuals to continue to live, albeit behind bars, on the other.
I believe, from a purely punative point of view, that life-imprisonment (without parole, of course) is more effective vis `a vis the offender.

As an aside, I've always wondered how many people DON'T commit murder due to the existence of the death penalty?

I think it's propriety/popularity in the U.S. is engendered somehow by the freedoms we have here; society deigns that actions have consequences, no matter what you read on the front page or see on television.

Chalice

I agree - there needs to be a rethink in how we use prison. I am also wary of (but not against) the use of psychologists. A person who finds children sexually attractive cannot suddenly find them repellant. He may come to consider his actions unacceptable and like an alcholic know he must not go there again, but I think that is the best that can be hoped for.

I also agree; too much confidence is placed in rehabilitation, and the blanket of rights which SHOULD apply to, say, a drug user/abuser also, regretfully, covers child-molestrers and murderers.
That is not to say rehab should be restricted or removed, just that we shouldn't dispense legitimate candidacy for rehab "on demand".

A prison environment with other offenders is not the place to come to that point -especially if the individual as hitherto had little contact with like minded individuals. Locking up all offenders great and small and throwing away the key is neither practical nor affordable and should only be used for those who are a clear and continued danger. The prison system is already creaking under the strain of overuse.

Certainly "mass-storage" methods hinder rehabilitation; we have pure prison "capacity", but the system could benefit from a bit more specialization. Some "sub-division" would seem to be in order.


Whether we can find a practical alternative approach is a moot point. Stepping back from demonisation might be a good start. In the past to be homosexual often incurred torture and the death penalty - all that happened was homosexuals learned to be very very careful.

Anent drug users.

However, any radical departure from the current approach would require considerable political courage - I won't hold my breath.

Political courage? A dear commodity-haven't seen any in years.

Just in case, I have not made my self clear I am not "soft" on this issue - I have teenage kids and the main complaint from my daughter is I am "over-protective". I certainly hope the judge has made a very careful assessment of the risks the individual concerned poses. As I said above, the same judge sentenced a similar case to life the other day because he was considered to be a continued long term threat.

Not soft, Chalice; just thoughtful-another dear commodity.

EDIT: clarity

[Biggles]

J2k4

Interesting,

I have often wondered why those who commit crime do so (apart from those driven by the desperation of say heroin addiction). The levels of crime do not vary proportionately with the punishment. Given the draconian laws of Saudi Arabia one would think that no one would steal anything, but the swordsman is busy every Friday lopping off bits of anatomy (some more crucial than others).

I think it was Emile Durkheim who wrote on the pathology of crime. He maintained that there was a normal level of criminal activity regardless of the penalties or ability of the police to solve crimes. Indeed he viewed crime as a means for society to identify its boundaries of normal behaviour. The more sedate the society the more petty the crimes that scandalise. So in a sleepy little town with no serious crime people will get bent out of shape about messy wheelie bins or whatever.

Above this is a casual element that will become involved if they think they really will get away with it. Although my boy racer days are long over, I confess I am less careful with the speed I travel at on the open road if I know there are no speed cameras than I am if they are watching- indeed, I am most circumspect under their baleful gaze. Yet there are always those who insist on doing 90 in second gear in a 30 zone (with a baseball cap on back to front) regardless of whether the entire traffic police traffic force is there or not. Stupid or pathologically criminal? or a bit of both?

Clearly, rational crime, that is sophisticated frauds which net millions of pounds or dollars are based on risk and reward. Presumably we don't know about the really good ones because they have never been discovered. However, acts of violence and murder frequently do not have a rational component - such as the tragic murder of the Swedish politician. They just seem to happen as a result of one individual snapping.

I guess we could genetically test for this pathological disorder but I suspect there might be as many behind bars as free. I fear we lack even mass storage capacity for prisons - I heard the other day that for 2002 our average daily prison capacity was exceeded by 12%. Quite where they put them I am not sure. This is, I am sure, a factor judges have to take into account when sentencing. Although there is complete separation of our legal and political system, judges are not divorced from the economic realities of the judicial and penal system.

The odd thing about societal revenge is that it is often demanded most by those who are unaffected by the crime. Those who are affected are often those most prepared to forgive. I saw an interesting interview on tv with a gentleman whose daughter had been killed in the Oklahoma bombing. It was an extemely touching conversation as he clearly still felt his loss deeply but was against the death penalty for the bomber. I suppose for the relatives of the victims the worst has happened - revenge at that point is fairly hollow.

A bit of a hotch potch this post. Trying to deal with Crime and Punishment is like putting a pint in a quart pot - that Russian chap ended up consuming half a forest as I recall.

[imported_holte_-_ender]

Sick FUCK

Go to hell !!

Holte