Short Prison Term

[chev24grd]

Originally posted by 4play@10 September 2003 - 02:05
the judge who gave this sentence is being crucified in england. just about every newspaper is calling for his resignation.

there is a pertition going around as well to have this fella sacked and rightly so.

Another example of an ultra liberal Judge. Got plenty of em here in the states. Bastards

[clocker]

Originally posted by chev24grd@10 September 2003 - 13:53

Another example of an ultra liberal Judge. Got plenty of em here in the states. Bastards

Chev24grd,

What do you know about this judge which would lead you to conclude that he is "ultra liberal" as opposed to just a poor jurist?

[Biggles]

J2K4

Thank you.

Isn't it great to have the board back. We have one at work but it is heavily moderated and has a monthly post limit. Consequently, many of the posts are carefully crafted to cover umpteen issues in one fell swoop. I get a guilty chill of wastefulness every time I post I one-liner on here.

I appreciate some prefer short pithy comments, but sometimes the more complex ideas and issues do lend themselves to a paragraph or two.

However, it looks like one or two skipped over it and went straight for... well I am not sure what really.

I recall reading in a Dilbert book a skit where MS mis-spell a word in their spell checker and simply tell Websters (I think being a US version of the Oxford) to change the official spelling. It is a foolish person indeed who messes with the supreme being. I just smile happily when the software crashes and phone up to ask if I can pay more money. (That last sentence was a lie - sorry )

[Billy_Dean]

One thing to remember here is, unlike in England, this sentence can be appealed as being too lenient. I don't think we've heard the last of this case. I also believe another villain here is Dr Gary MacPherson, this man is willing to gamble on whether or not this piece of shit will re-offend. What does it matter, lock him up for life, fuck him, who cares?

[Gooch2k]

I think we should have a new justice system for sick freaks like these! they should be locked away and be tortured over a long, long period of time, then sentenced to death. I know this sounds extreme and no person should be tortured, but in my view people who do this sort of thing cease to be people! It would be much more of a deterrent than the current "slapped wrist and sit in the corner" justice we have at the moment.

[ilw]

Biggles as always you make a good and reasoned point, I agree that this is a case where the perpetrator clearly has mental problems and should be treated accordingly. That said the sentence given seems wrong no matter how you look at it. If its just 5 years in prison that does not act as a deterrent or retribution or most critically of all (IMO) rehabilitation. If the sentence had been 5 years in psychiatric care I could probably accept that.
Actually thinking about it does anyone know if paedophiles in prison go through any mandatory counselling / psychological help?

[chalice]

I agree that Biggles's post was of a wider vista and all the more humbling for it.
I do know that paedophiles receive psyschiatric councelling in prison. It's usually one of the stipulations during sentencing. Whether or not they heed this help is a matter for them and the (often questionable) assessment of the counciller.

Often these ministrations take the form of group councilling.
And what happens if you group sociopaths together? You get a bunch of sociopaths who can draw on various sources to justify their abjectivity. You get cliques.
"Mommy didn't love me." weeps the wretch.
"Neither did mine, that's two things we have in common." replies his comrade, "Lets form a club. Here, try some of my perversions."

Just as the fledgling miscreant learns his trade in prison, so too does the paedophile. Prison is a place to reflect on your future. Yet is also a place to study the workings of a parallel code of thought. Art therapy, that's a laugh. What qualifies a psychologist to plumb the depths of a mind already distracted by where his next infant prey is coming from? What man can truly sound confident in saying, "My patient's baby raping days are over. Go with my blessing. You are healed."?

The only thing new about this practice is the (infinitely nausiating) treatment of it by the tabloids. Yet do we sweep it under the carpet? I don't think there's any room left under the carpet. I refer to the proliferation of the net. Often, I would guess, the unhinged mind encounters practices and philosophies ineptly justified by classical texts and irresponsible thinkers. Not to mention material of the basest level. Mercifully, this is not ancient Greece and information (rooted in blood bays or not) should be made available to us. Naming and shaming is wrong. It has been proven to clot together lynch-mobs. We do need to know what that casual neighbour is thinking, though, because this issue is not going away. It has carved its own growing niche in society and I for one have no desire to understand it. To try gives it credence.

I never thought I would have enjoyed reading a post on this subject but Biggles has proved me wrong.

[j2k4]

Until we develop plastic surgery for the soul, I don't believe these types ought to be availed of the prospect of a second chance; its just too risky.

We may regret the ill-treatment they suffered during their formative years, and lament the necessity of locking them away, but we are left with no options.

Society does not owe them freedom in exchange for their past suffering.

[DanB]

There are some really interesting and very thought provoking posts here. i must say being a lounge person normally i'm not really used to them like that!

Thanks Biggles & Chalice.

[Biggles]

Gooch2K

Alas, I fear such regimes are not a good idea. It takes little to subvert them and before you know it the knock on the door in the middle of night is for you because you have said the wrong thing to the wrong person.

I have a view that what are considered to be liberal judicial systems (ie no death penalty etc.,) belong not in weak societies but rather in ones where those in power feel little threat from those below. It is no surprise that the EU, an area where collective bargaining coupled with a reasonably strong social cohesion and effective means of social control (a kind of benevolent Big Brother) feels safe in dispensing with rougher forms of justice.

The deterent effect of the latter is unproved. Often those countries with a somewhat sterner approach have higher rates of serious crime. This is neither caused by or detered by capital punishment. I believe the US still uses the death penalty precisely because in many ways it is a freer society. By that, I mean it is easier to disappear in the US and this sense of isolation from the collective (indeed amongst some in the US the very word would appear to be off-colour) causes concern at both the higher political level and in society in general. Capital punishment is therefore seen as a means to redress that lack of control. However, that is just a theory I have mulled over from time to time and am happy to modify or reject it if someone can throw further light on the issue.

Chalice

I agree - there needs to be a rethink in how we use prison. I am also wary of (but not against) the use of psychologists. A person who finds children sexually attractive cannot suddenly find them repellant. He may come to consider his actions unacceptable and like an alcholic know he must not go there again, but I think that is the best that can be hoped for.

A prison environment with other offenders is not the place to come to that point -especially if the individual as hitherto had little contact with like minded individuals. Locking up all offenders great and small and throwing away the key is neither practical nor affordable and should only be used for those who are a clear and continued danger. The prison system is already creaking under the strain of overuse.


Whether we can find a practical alternative approach is a moot point. Stepping back from demonisation might be a good start. In the past to be homosexual often incurred torture and the death penalty - all that happened was homosexuals learned to be very very careful.

However, any radical departure from the current approach would require considerable political courage - I won't hold my breath.

Just in case, I have not made my self clear I am not "soft" on this issue - I have teenage kids and the main complaint from my daughter is I am "over-protective". I certainly hope the judge has made a very careful assessment of the risks the individual concerned poses. As I said above, the same judge sentenced a similar case to life the other day because he was considered to be a continued long term threat.