And yet again a reminder PLEASE READ!!!!!

[Detale]

When did FST become so nazi. With mods telling members to fuck off and mind their own business. Is one only allowed to comment on a subject if one agrees with the mods now.

It certainly didn't start out that way.

And it isn't that way now JP. Maybe I missed it but where exactly did I tell anyone to fuck off? I was merely trying to shut down the whole trader/anti trader argument that has been done to death already Shirley you see that. Don't get your panties in a bunch (again) this was meant to help some of our newer members from the scammers that come here, not a big deal really. Don't think this warrants a "Nazi" tag either man. A bit beneath you really.

For the "anti" traders please leave the bullshit out of this thread. This was mostly posted because I noticed lots of scams done over MSN not so we could have another debate about trading/not trading. If you have some helpful input ON TOPIC great, if not nothin to see here....move along

This thread was going to attract flamebait Detale, such epic words as 'safer trading' were bound to be a red flag to a bull.
A very simple rule that you cannot deny is that without trading there would be no scams ? Also the very fact that so many members here have duplicate memberships or even multiples as in recent cases, makes it less likely that this will be a 'safe' environment. All it means is that you can ban the offending member but then they will merrily carry on their way with the other memberships and/or create new ones.
I fully realise with the huge membership that FST has ( and the fact that membership is never pruned) plus the fact that there are no IP duplicate checking scripts here means tracking duplicate memberships is very hit and miss, but then this also makes the 'safer trading' concept even less viable.
It's a truly lovely sentiment though...........

I guess you're right Art but my focus isn't really on safer trading it was more on people using their heads if they do decide to trade. There are lots of reports here from people who traded on MSN and then come a'crying here but as it has been said 1000x we cannot police the internet only our humble site. This also puts me in an awkward position, I want to help our members but at the same time I can't do much when people are scammed this way. Maybe if people get the idea now that will help them in the future not to be scammed and in general use a bit more common sense.

Is one only allowed to comment on a subject if one agrees with the mods now.

this guy doesn't even deserve the attention to a response, another jackass who thinks hes better then everyone else

Wow did YOU hit the nail on the head

[bumrocks]

Alright...Unusually, I'm going to keep my mouth shut on this one. I have lots to say but will resepect the mods wish. Trader's wishes I will still ignore...

[Funkin']

go away you fucking troll

An expected response from some douchebag trader. You're whole post was nothing but trolling to myself, greymatter, and JPaul.

I was just trying to give you traders a little advice by telling you there is no guaranteed way that you're not going to get ripped off. The only guaranteed way is not to do it.

[Artemis]

There are different sections here for different subjects. I was just wondering if there is a thread for anti-traders. If not, there should be one. Or they will start hijacking every thread in the same way. Why do they read and post in the 'trade section' in the first place if they have no interest in trading. Will these all refrain people from trading? ppl this is not politics.

If a site (FST) allows trading means why can't a mod set some rules or tips for 'safe trading'. I'm going to write a user guide about 'safe trading'. lol

If i talk about trading or not trading, (since someone popped in with an off topic) I stayed low here for around an year with no trading. I'm not addicted to trading or collecting trackers. Now i ran out of my stuff and came back here. Still the trading section is here after lots of arguments and all those debates. I think, it's the tracker staff's duty to find out 'who is against their rules?' Not FST staff. IMO, FST staff is co-operating with most trackers who don't want their invites to be traded and are active here. Afterall, FST is an individual forum which has no obligation to those TRACKERS.

The whole point is this thread is against scammers and cheaters, not against anti-traders.

Although this is in the trade section it is not a trade thread, therefore it is fair game in terms of whether people should comment or not comment? Just because someone does not trade does not mean that they shouldn't read a section on the forum, for me people's posts (all of them) help me to form an opinion of them, saying that people have a right to view or not view a section of this forum is censorship, is that what you are advocating ?
As for trading itself, it is a slippery slope, because people are willing to offer their memberships to trackers to others like other forms of 'collectables' there are those that wish to take them from the unwary by scamming them out of their memberships. But the simple and basic fact of this is that if people did not offer their tracker memberships or the invites they had gained by being members then the scammers would be out of a hobby.

[Disme]

I love them traded accounts they're the best ... having to fear the fact it can be disabled at anytime when the tracker in question checks the IP-change, lying low in the forums, not being able to post because you don't know jack-shit about the one who owned the account before you and everything you say could be used against you ...

[greymatter]

As for trading itself, it is a slippery slope, because people are willing to offer their memberships to trackers to others like other forms of 'collectables' there are those that wish to take them from the unwary by scamming them out of their memberships. But the simple and basic fact of this is that if people did not offer their tracker memberships or the invites they had gained by being members then the scammers would be out of a hobby.

Its a common fact that not everyone can join all sites they want due to their limited user base or site policies over inviting new members.

Its another fact that not everyone trading is simply collecting trackers.

Its another fact that sites have staff and their rules that protect them.

Then why few users in this community are against those members who trade? If you were a site staff somewhere, i could justify you. If you mean to say, i invited someone and he traded, then stop giving away. If you mean, i have invites to deserving people, don't pop into the trade section. You won't find them.

As you said, there is no problem in reading trade offers, read it. BUT I would just say, just read and move away. Why to comment or advise if they don't deserve to keep/protect their accounts?

Finally, its just one thing. Do not defy moderator's expressed wishes. lol
No matter how small the user base/site rating is, the rule is general.

[wiseD]

Are you an antitrader? It seems from your voice, you hate traders. Give me a better idea how to get trackers i want. I will quit trading. Or if you are a mod in e**** send me an invite. I will quit trading today.

Do you know what friends are?

[puckface]

go away you fucking troll

An expected response from some douchebag trader. You're whole post was nothing but trolling to myself, greymatter, and JPaul.

I was just trying to give you traders a little advice by telling you there is no guaranteed way that you're not going to get ripped off. The only guaranteed way is not to do it.

Trolling against trolls , and at least i gave some useful information. I never see that from any of you at any time.

[Artemis]

If you mean to say, i invited someone and he traded, then stop giving away.

Yes I surely did, or rather I ran into his non trader persona I offered him an invite to bitmetv, he promptly dashed off and fired a ratiocheat program at the tracker getting himself and me disabled in the process. Of course at first he was very effusive in his apologies and his trader persona even emailed me as a 'friend' of the original member. Now the point of this little tale is that he was also previously banned here under other guises, was operating both as a non trader and as a trader (had scammed) and used ratio cheat programs as well. So yes I got rather spectacularly burned there when I was fairly new to this forum.

Then why few users in this community are against those members who trade?

In answer to this I have already given one of many examples, but to put it more clearly trading and scamming are two sides of a coin and are inseparable, if there was no trading there would be no a/c's to scam in the first place, and the scammers are not a separate group they are some of the very same traders who at the time want a tracker that is on offer but a. don't have anything to trade so they simply relieve the other person of the membership instead, or b. don't want to give any of their own tracker memberships for various reasons so scam the other person.
It is not like there are 'good' traders and 'bad' traders and they all have a badge to recognise each other , traders do not want to follow the rules of the trackers that they belong to (or only want to follow the rules of those that they choose to), and some of these very same traders also do not want to respect other traders and follow the rules of the trade, or are quite willing to relieve the unwary of their tracker memberships for being n00bs etc.

As you said, there is no problem in reading trade offers, read it. BUT I would just say, just read and move away. Why to comment or advise if they don't deserve to keep/protect their accounts?

Finally, its just one thing. Do not defy moderator's expressed wishes. lol
No matter how small the user base/site rating is, the rule is general.

My posts on this subject are on topic, I am offering an alternative to safe trading in saying to others that if you do not trade then you will not be scammed, this is a simple and unalienable fact, and thus is part of the topic of scamming. Some people are told that the only way to get the trackers that they wish is to trade, this is a lie, if you spend the time to make friends then they will want you to become part of trackers and communities. I am trying to show a balanced view of the whole subject, which is scamming, and my original comments were that it is becoming so prevalent here because of the multiple a/c's that many members are starting to build up. There are some people who have a non trader a/c, a trader a/c and some sacrificial a/c's for the odd trade/scam that might go wrong, and I am saying that the only truly effective way to navigate through these waters is to not trade.
As for Detale's expressed wishes, even he replied to my original post, long before you did, agreeing with my points, if they had been off topic he would have said so since we know each other very well.
The choice in the end is yours, to trade or not to trade, I do not personally believe that trading builds good long term members of the community but there are some. I do however believe that the scamming that is becoming so prevalent is because people are willing to pass memberships around like pokemon cards, and that there is something inherently wrong with this very willingness.

[greymatter]

As for Detale's expressed wishes, even he replied to my original post, long before you did, agreeing with my points, if they had been off topic he would have said so since we know each other very well.

lol, i really didn't mean you. I apologize and it was a mistake that i referred 'YOU' but it was not you but the anti traders, not all, but those ones who appear in every thread hoping to have an invite from the once experienced traders who eventually became anti-traders. I think they are for a good cause because they understand the evils of trading but i guess, being just a user in those sites, one should quit trading as some members here has done. Once you got everything, then discouraging others to trade is not justified either. The best thing one can do is report to the corresponding trackers rather than destroying the friendly atmosphere here. Sometimes, its right, there are people who have every tracker on that level list but still can't satisfy their desire to trade and I don't think they will be discouraged from trading by these comments.

Once again apologies, it was not you.