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Thread: Should the American automakers...

  1. #1
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    ...receive a government (read taxpayer-funded) bailout.
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #2
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    Oh, I forgot to mention-

    The average employee at GM Ford and Chrysler makes $73.50 an hour, which translates to about $150,000 per year, assuming no overtime.
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #3
    pentomato's Avatar Above the sun
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    Not the auto makers not Wall ST shpuld receive a cent of any money, that is socialism at its best.
    Where is my money? I should get some money too

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #4
    pentomato's Avatar Above the sun
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    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post
    Oh, I forgot to mention-

    The average employee at GM Ford and Chrysler makes $73.50 an hour, which translates to about $150,000 per year, assuming no overtime.
    Should they make less?
    CEO from Wall st make millions a year, so nobody should get anything, just me a few millions.

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #5
    n00b BT Rep: +9BT Rep +9
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    I would buy now Ford stocks $ 1.87 per share not bad just wait and it will go up couple months but it will that is the insider information, and American Gov won,t let them go out of business why over 3 mil people would be out of work and much more but that is my opinion
    Last edited by 2slick4u; 11-18-2008 at 10:38 PM.

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #6
    Skiz's Avatar (_8(I)
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    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post
    Oh, I forgot to mention-

    The average employee at GM Ford and Chrysler makes $73.50 an hour, which translates to about $150,000 per year, assuming no overtime.
    Only the ones up North are making that much and as you're likely aware, it's as a result of the unions.

    The auto plants in the South w/o the union presence are all still profitable and the employees still earn a respectable wage along with comparable benefit plans.

    We shouldn't be bailing out companies with tax dollars b/c their union has been raping them for decades. Let them go bankrupt and get out of their union obligations and start anew.



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  7. The Drawing Room   -   #7
    clocker's Avatar Shovel Ready
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizo View Post
    We shouldn't be bailing out companies with tax dollars b/c their union has been raping them for decades. Let them go bankrupt and get out of their union obligations and start anew.
    I think it's simplistic to blame the US auto industry's woes on union "rape".

    The Big Three were almost happy to grant absurd concessions to labor because at the time they were granting themselves even more ridiculous bonuses and perks.
    Seemed like the good times would never end and what was the problem anyway? Any increased costs would just get passed on to the consumer, who, having been trained like a circus seal, was supposed to buy a new (preferably more expensive) model every three years.

    Life was good until the Japanese (and later, the Koreans) had the temerity to enter the arena and foreign oil producers realized what they were actually sitting on.

    Contrary to popular misconceptions, Big Oil and the automotive industry were NOT in bed together...the entire US car business was predicated on cheap, abundant gasoline- no need to worry about efficiency or quality when gas was 50 cents a gallon.
    Starting with the Arab oil embargo of 1973, the US manufacturers started to bury their heads in the sand and just kept burrowing till we get to our position today.

    I say, "Fuck em".
    No company is "too big to fail" and if they seem to be, then now's the time to cut them down to size.
    Look at the product they have in the pipeline...Detroit's fondest dream is to reboot the golden days of the Sixties- we have "new" Mustangs, Camaros and GTOs.
    We have "hybrid" Escalades- possibly the most egregious rejection of a reality that demands small, efficient transportation instead of dinosaurs draped in pseudo-green technology.

    The Big Three have been horribly managed since the Fifties and, completely of their own volition and solely for their own benefit, have tried to craft an America that doesn't correspond to reality.
    The government and the people were complicit in the fantasy and now it's time to reap the whirlwind, painful as it may be.

    So, once again....fuck 'em.
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #8
    IdolEyes787's Avatar Persona non grata
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    I agree. Whose to say the automobile industry as it exists is even a viable entity?

    Will this be the first of a endless number of bailouts.

    Or might it be time to determine what the sustainable level really is.

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #9
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by j2k4 View Post
    Oh, I forgot to mention-

    The average employee at GM Ford and Chrysler makes $73.50 an hour, which translates to about $150,000 per year, assuming no overtime.
    Only the ones up North are making that much and as you're likely aware, it's as a result of the unions.

    The auto plants in the South w/o the union presence are all still profitable and the employees still earn a respectable wage along with comparable benefit plans.

    We shouldn't be bailing out companies with tax dollars b/c their union has been raping them for decades. Let them go bankrupt and get out of their union obligations and start anew.
    Our southern auto industry is populated by such as Toyota, Honda, etc., whose workers still make in the neighborhood of 90-100K/year.

    However, they are relative paradigms of efficiency when compared to the clowns at the Big Three.

    Those who beg that we "not allow the U.S. auto industry to die" do not acknowledge these (by comparison) thriving endeavors.

    Quote Originally Posted by clocker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Skizo View Post
    We shouldn't be bailing out companies with tax dollars b/c their union has been raping them for decades. Let them go bankrupt and get out of their union obligations and start anew.
    I think it's simplistic to blame the US auto industry's woes on union "rape".

    The Big Three were almost happy to grant absurd concessions to labor because at the time they were granting themselves even more ridiculous bonuses and perks.
    Seemed like the good times would never end and what was the problem anyway? Any increased costs would just get passed on to the consumer, who, having been trained like a circus seal, was supposed to buy a new (preferably more expensive) model every three years.

    Life was good until the Japanese (and later, the Koreans) had the temerity to enter the arena and foreign oil producers realized what they were actually sitting on.

    Contrary to popular misconceptions, Big Oil and the automotive industry were NOT in bed together...the entire US car business was predicated on cheap, abundant gasoline- no need to worry about efficiency or quality when gas was 50 cents a gallon.
    Starting with the Arab oil embargo of 1973, the US manufacturers started to bury their heads in the sand and just kept burrowing till we get to our position today.

    I say, "Fuck em".
    No company is "too big to fail" and if they seem to be, then now's the time to cut them down to size.
    Look at the product they have in the pipeline...Detroit's fondest dream is to reboot the golden days of the Sixties- we have "new" Mustangs, Camaros and GTOs.
    We have "hybrid" Escalades- possibly the most egregious rejection of a reality that demands small, efficient transportation instead of dinosaurs draped in pseudo-green technology.

    The Big Three have been horribly managed since the Fifties and, completely of their own volition and solely for their own benefit, have tried to craft an America that doesn't correspond to reality.
    The government and the people were complicit in the fantasy and now it's time to reap the whirlwind, painful as it may be.

    So, once again....fuck 'em.
    I totally agree, great post.

    That's a great book, isn't it?
    “Think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of 'em are stupider than that.” -George Carlin

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #10
    clocker's Avatar Shovel Ready
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    As you can tell, I finished the book*.

    The Reckoning by David Halberstam is an amazing look at the American auto industry.
    Highly recommended.



    *Just about went blind from the small type.
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

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