Israel & Palestine

[Sparkle1984]

Everyone is fighting with everyone else.
neibours,football supporters,spouces.
so why not these two, people talk of peace, it has never existed and never will.
humans fight and hunt thats how the race has survived so long, the problems came when people tryed to make peace this was the start of over population,starvation and destroying the environment.
LET THEM GET ON WITH IT AND SORT OUT YOUR OWN LIVES ! 

I find your opinion rather strange. Innocent people are dying, not just the people who actually take part in the fighting. So of course the world should help find peace.

[noname12]

Thanks mogadishu
the_painter say that when your people get murdered without mercy

[Billy_Dean]

Israeli pilots refuse to fly assassination missions

Conal Urquhart in Jerusalem
Thursday September 25, 2003
The Guardian

A group of Israeli airforce pilots declared yesterday that they would refuse to fly missions which could endanger civilians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
The declaration was aimed at Israel's policy of assassinating activists of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade.

The 27 pilots sent a letter to the commander of Israel's airforce refusing to carry out duties, which include track and kill operations, in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. One of the pilots told Israeli television that the letter said: "We, veteran pilots and active pilots alike...are opposed to carrying out illegal and immoral attacks, of the type carried out by Israel in the territories.

"We, who have been educated to love the state of Israel refuse to take part in airforce attacks in civilian population centres. We refuse to continue harming innocent civilians."

It was unclear how many of the pilots were still active in the airforce, but reserve pilots are regularly called upon for missions.

A spokesman for the Israeli army said they never discussed the numbers of military personnel in any sector but said that the 27 pilots were "a drop in the ocean".

Brigadier General Ido Nehushtn of the Israeli airforce said the pilots were a "marginal, small group" of retired and reserve pilots. Israel's chief of army staff, Moshe Ya'alon, said the pilots could be punished for their "illegitimate" and "forbidden" statement.

Since August 19, Israel's airforce has killed 12 Hamas members and four bystanders. Over the past two years Israel's "targeted assassinations" have killed dozens of bystanders by using bombs wieghing up to one tonne in densely populated areas of the Gaza Strip.

Last month an attempt to kill Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the spiritual leader of Hamas, failed because the Israelis used a 113kg (250Ib) bomb rather than a one-tonne bomb on the building where he was expected to attend a meeting.

Israeli intelligence believed that Sheikh Yassin was meeting associates on the third floor of the building, which the bomb destroyed, but as the meeting took place on the first floor he was uninjured.

The week before an attempt on Mahmoud Zahar, another Hamas leader, failed because he was sitting in his garden when a bomb hit his house in Gaza City.

His son and a bodyguard were killed in the attack and his wife was injured.

The Article

[evilbagpuss]

Originally posted by Conal Urquhart in Jerusalem+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Conal Urquhart in Jerusalem)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>A group of Israeli airforce pilots declared yesterday that they would refuse to fly missions which could endanger civilians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. [/b]

Good on them, that must have taken some real balls to stand up to their superiors on this issue. It will be interesting to see what punishment they receive.

<!--QuoteBegin-Conal Urquhart in Jerusalem

Since August 19, Israel&#39;s airforce has killed 12 Hamas members and four bystanders. Over the past two years Israel&#39;s "targeted assassinations" have killed dozens of bystanders by using bombs wieghing up to one tonne in densely populated areas of the Gaza Strip[/quote]

Could someone explain, in really simple terms, why this is morally acceptable and why UK/US taxpayers money should go towards supporting it?

Apparently it is &#39;contrarian&#39; not to support this indiscriminate slaughter. If someone could also explain why this is so, I&#39;d really appreciate it.

[Billy_Dean]

Bagpuss, haven&#39;t seen you around for a while, how are you?

Did you catch this post mate?

Billy Dean=evilbagpuss, one and the same

[evilbagpuss]

LMAO&#33;&#33;&#33; Thanks for bringing it to my attention mate&#33; I always seem to miss the good stuff&#33;

Originally posted by j2k4
Two Brits living in Aussieland, with the same political M.O., the same propensity for superficial "philosophy", the same thought patterns, the same writing style, and neither of them (&#33 knows how to properly use the "quote" function on this board?

I was going to say that a moderator should check our IP addresses / locations but it seems that it has already been done. Thanks Bender

This is actually a good thing. I find it very encouraging to see j2k4 stoop to this level. Next time he tries on his "Im Mr Reasonable and Respectable, a fair player in all debates" act. We can just point him back to this. Lets focus on the worst aspect of this sad story...

I have never said I&#39;m from Australia, in fact on multiple occassions I&#39;ve stated that I&#39;m from the UK. Every time this has been in a thread on the "world events" board where j2k4 and I regularly lock horns. So we must come to the conclusion that

J2k4 knows I do not live in Australia and has never seen a post from me claiming that I do. He has, however, seen me state, on more than one occasion, that I live in the UK.

So... as well as a childish personal attack on you and I, he also attempted to deceive everyone reading that thread.

A real man would apologise for such behaviour. I wont hold my breath waiting for it though...

PS

It has come to my attention that clocker and j2k4 both live in the United States and both hold similar political viewpoints on the Israel/Palestine issue.

After hours of research, soul searching, deep meditation and a lengthy forensic examination of the scene, I have come to the undeniable conclusion that this means absolutely fuck all&#33;

[hobbes]

Evilbagpuss,

J2K4 simply made a mistake, and if you guys had bothered to read, I enlightened him of this error. J2 was confusing you with Echidna, who lives down under. You all share a similar POV on the topic under discussion.

Well J2,

J2- EBP is from the UK, Billy Dean and Echidna are from Australia, don&#39;t forget myfiles3000 from Canada

http://www.klboard.ath.cx/index.php?act=ST...ndpost&p=505105

I left a link, as the whole post would bring up bad memories for Billy and it might make you laugh if you understood the context. I don&#39;t want ol&#39; EBP to laugh.

Since Bender cleared up the issue, why would you require an apology unless you were offended by being thought to be Billy Dean. If you were to accuse J2K4 of being Clocker (aka Clocko), you would be wrong, but J2 would certainly not be offended, he might even be a little flattered, who knows?

Anyway, I hope this stain on your name is something you can overcome.

[evilbagpuss]

J2K4 simply made a mistake, and if you guys had bothered to read, I enlightened him of this error. J2 was confusing you with Echidna, who lives down under. You all share a similar POV on the topic under discussion.

J2k4 did not make a mistake. He wasnt confusing me with echidna. I think that is quite obvious. Let me show you.

Originally posted by j2k4
I found one where Billy "congratulated" himself....I mean, EBP, for "flushing me out".

Billy congratulated me for &#39;flushing&#39; him out. Not echidna. Your argument that this is all a misunderstanding of identity does not fit the facts.

The truth is that he knew perfectly well what he was doing and who he was referring to.

Why do I deserve an apology? Because it was a dirty underhand attempt to &#39;debunk&#39; Billy_Deans and my views without actually addresing them. Again this is obvious.

Pretending to be 2 people and talking to yourself on a forum is pretty ridiculous.. yes? Being accused of such insane behaviour is a stain on ones name is it not?

I think its quite obvious why I am offended by this &#39;strategy&#39;.

[ilw]

J2k4 knows I do not live in Australia

Hobbes was just pointing out that J2K4 mixed up where you and Echidna lived, he knew you were british, but thought you lived in Oz. I didn&#39;t read the thread when it came out, but i assumed the accusation was in jest

[hobbes]

EvilBillypuss,

J2 apparently had an epiphany, or at least a strong cup of coffee, while reading the thread and decided to bring this revelation to the board. In this semi-manic state his memory failed to differentiate your homeland from Echidnas, as he likely stores information about you two on a single synapse due to your similar attitudes.

A single person, posting under 2 names is not unheard of and we must blame JPaul for planting this seed of suspicion in our minds.


As for deception, why would he start at thread avering that you 2 were one in the same? It must have been that he genuinely felt it to be true, and was hoping for confirmation from a mod.

If you look through the words to the meaning, you will see that the thread was basically asking a mod to confirm or deny his assertation. Being J2, his style was to go for the homerun (insert soccer equivalent), and state his convictions boldly.

True deception would have been to make this statement as a tactic to undermine your argument and credibility in a setting where there is no impartial body to confirm or deny this.

His thread stands there now, a clear reminder that he made a guess and was wrong. Live by the sword.......

Anyway, need we bring up your past deception, again. Given this history, it makes me wonder about your impartiality in this matter. Why you might have some use for portraying a mistake as an attempt at deception. Hmmm. Perhaps you are the one trying to deceive, again?



As for why you were offended, of course, it was obvious. Sometimes I like to intentionally misunderstand as well, to show people how aggravating it can be. I am a little insulted that you felt to need to explain the obvious to me