"Don't you hope Obama succeeds?"

[pentomato]

Don't you mean, "Do I hope Obama proves America can thrive under socialism?"

Well, it hasn't worked too well anywhere else, so, uh, no - I guess not.

What you'll end up with is social democracy, at best. Which works well enough.

I'm only saying that because I'm in what's generally run by social democrats, and it does all right.

The taxes are higher but less people have to sleep on the streets, or die cos they lack health insurance, and fun stuff like that.

If you are talking about Europe, my god I want to die before I get sick there, they don't have half the medicines we have in the USA.
What good is it to have health insurance, if they don't have medicines?

[Snee]

What you'll end up with is social democracy, at best. Which works well enough.

I'm only saying that because I'm in what's generally run by social democrats, and it does all right.

The taxes are higher but less people have to sleep on the streets, or die cos they lack health insurance, and fun stuff like that.

If you are talking about Europe, my god I want to die before I get sick there, they don't have half the medicines we have in the USA.
What good is it to have health insurance, if they don't have medicines?

Seriously

EDit: And just to hammer the point aaall the way home.

-=-=-

Public education, that's something you may want to funnel some of those new tax dollars into, J2.

[pentomato]

If you are talking about Europe, my god I want to die before I get sick there, they don't have half the medicines we have in the USA.
What good is it to have health insurance, if they don't have medicines?

Seriously

EDit: And just to hammer the point aaall the way home.

-=-=-

Public education, that's something you may want to funnel some of those new tax dollars into, J2.

I was in an european country 2 years ago and they didn't have lots of medicines we have here.
Here in the US, if you have to go for an operation, they will do it right away, in Europe where social medicine is free, they have to wait years sometimes, and sometimes they die waiting.

[Snee]

You're terribly dense, or a really obvious troll, you know.


Europe isn't one nation, and most of the countries that had better overall health care standards in 2000 than the US already, were european. And this was before Bush raped the bank to start a couple of wars and redecorate Iraq.

I'm sure Bosnia or whatever was bad, but it wasn't all of europe.

And nor is all of europe social democrat.

[pentomato]

You're terribly dense, or a really obvious troll, you know.


Europe isn't one nation, and most of the countries that had better overall health care standards in 2000 than the US already, were european. And this was before Bush raped the bank to start a couple of wars and redecorate Iraq.

I'm sure Bosnia or whatever was bad, but it wasn't all of europe.

And nor is all of europe social democrat.

No I am not a troll I am just telling you, thank you for clarifying that Europe is not one country, did you get that on a dictionary?
And I am talking about Spain, France, germany etc etc, and all those countries in the european union, their health care will never be able to compare to the one in the United States, with or without Bush.

[Snee]

Knowing stuff like how you don't have a clue about Europe probably comes from me living there, and, you know, not having had to wait years for medicine which according to you I couldn't possibly have taken when I needed it.

From WHO, average overall health care standards in 2000, one (1) being the best:

1. France
7. Spain
25. Germany
39. USA

By the sound of it they were far better then, and probably not much worse (compared to how they were then) now.

[bigboab]

You're terribly dense, or a really obvious troll, you know.


Europe isn't one nation, and most of the countries that had better overall health care standards in 2000 than the US already, were european. And this was before Bush raped the bank to start a couple of wars and redecorate Iraq.

I'm sure Bosnia or whatever was bad, but it wasn't all of europe.

And nor is all of europe social democrat.

No I am not a troll I am just telling you, thank you for clarifying that Europe is not one country, did you get that on a dictionary?
And I am talking about Spain, France, germany etc etc, and all those countries in the european union, their health care will never be able to compare to the one in the United States, with or without Bush.

I have relatives who live in Ohio. Since they retired through ill health treatment has left them with no monetary reserves. The health service in the UK is free to all. I have not heard of anyone dying because they were refused long term beneficial treatment. There are people who have been refused palliative medicines that are too costly. Private medicine is available if you want it. We have the best of both worlds.

[The Flying Cow]

There's no point trying to argue with someone like that pentomato. (Read my sig). A debate where one of the parties observes absolutely no respect for the other, and sees itself as far superior, is doomed from the outset.

For the record, you raise relevant and real issues. Socialist health care, especially where I live, is a complete and aberrant failure of epic proportions. It is not uncommon for people to go without treatment, due to wait times, and to die in the process as well.

The state's generally highly complex bureaucratic machine, as Kafka so eloquently exemplifies in more than one of his works, is more often than not ineffective and unnecessary.

England is not a good example when one talks of the European Union's failed socialist health care systems. I'm sure, moreover, that you weren't referring to it pentomato.

[pentomato]

There's no point trying to argue with someone like that pentomato. (Read my sig). A debate where one of the parties observes absolutely no respect for the other, and sees itself as far superior, is doomed from the outset.

For the record, you raise relevant and real issues. Socialist health care, especially where I live, is a complete and aberrant failure of epic proportions. It is not uncommon for people to go without treatment, due to wait times, and to die in the process as well.

The state's generally highly complex bureaucratic machine, as Kafka so eloquently exemplifies in more than one of his works, is more often than not ineffective and unnecessary.

England is not a good example when one talks of the European Union's failed socialist health care systems. I'm sure, moreover, that you weren't referring to it pentomato.

Nope, I was refering to Spain, their healthcare if I am not mistaken is the same as the rest of Europe, I was there two eyars ago and I had to take my daugther to the hospital because of asthma, their care can't compare to what she gets in the US, of course I had to pay around $600, much less of what I would pay here.
The pharmacies there do not have a clue about what a cough night syrup is, and other medicines you need they don't have them either, this was my experience anyway.
Of course a pump for asthma such as ventolin ( rescue inhaler) there costs 50 euros, here around $150, but I prefer the system here.
There are many more things about it, for example, there you can't ask questions, they look at you like why are you asking, or you ask to much, here in the US that's my right, as it is my right to enter the emergency room with my daugther, there they don't let you.

[pentomato]

Knowing stuff like how you don't have a clue about Europe probably comes from me living there, and, you know, not having had to wait years for medicine which according to you I couldn't possibly have taken when I needed it.

From WHO, average overall health care standards in 2000, one (1) being the best:

1. France
7. Spain
25. Germany
39. USA

By the sound of it they were far better then, and probably not much worse (compared to how they were then) now.

I lived in Spain for a bunch of years, do not patronize me with the average overallhealth care. What I see is that europeans with money come to the Us for care.
Someone that I love very much had blood clots in her brain, they operated her, she didn't come out ok, she can't move her right side in her whole body, they don't have rehabilitation for that there, here she woulnd't leave the rehab place, till her right side would be ok again.
I have seeing people dying because they would have heart attacks or other things, and they would have to wait years for an operation, the wonderful socialized medicine killed them.
Here if you need your tonzils removed, they do it the week after, there you have to wait years, till your number comes up. enough said