So turnes out BT Music is all about money.

[drew]

Yeah we're a different breed so maybe I'll never understand completely.

I think your experience re: people getting screwed is misguided or paranoid when you consider how many huge, reputable sites exist. Paying for giganews/astraweb/highwinds etc. and even one of the big nzb sites, newzbin/nzbmatrix/nzbsrus etc. is very unlikely to result in a scam.

Your point about earning money from other people's work is more interesting. The services mentioned above are earning money on providing a service that provides access to such content and is not directly selling the content. Likewise, you pay for your isp and torrent sites pay for the servers where .torrents are hosted, which even more indirect than usenet, but someone is still making money on providing the access.

[shipwreck]

Of course you could argue that the whole broadband business would have never took off without piracy, and that is true to a certain degree for sure. But the Giganews' of this world are much more directly involved - hardly anyone is going to pay for a usenet service if he isn't interested in binaries, which are, let us be honest, mostly pirated material.

And that's the problem I have with this, the mentality those companies have established. Only the usenet crowd would pay for a service like NewzBin, for example, although many don't, of course. But you get the idea.

[AkaiDoresu]

Well I started this topic and I will summarize it.

Despite the opinion that it is all bullshit and it is just my imaginary interpretation of what happened you can see that many people who built this tracker from the beginning speak in a supportive to my argument manner.

AllAlone aka BlackSummer who is closely affiliated with Pedro tries to defend this already lost case. You lost all the community values of the site that was based upon such ideals. Old Pedro is done. These people are gonne.

And you won't build anything even close to what Pedro once was because your attitute and sick leadership needs are purely destructive. Now I guess there's nothing left to do but promote the Ruskie guys who upload counterfeit copies of retail CDs to VIPs. I really see no other choice.

You are healing your inferior complexes with the Godlike attitude on the Internet? Makes you feel respected and apprieciated? O Lord, that's sick.

And to your information AllAlone - I'm also Polish and I know what attitudes and values Pols present. You, along with pedro promote the ideas that make stereotypes about us as a nation TRUE which you should be really ashamed of.

And there is nothing wrong about making money. But keeping your profits under the table under the disguise of community driven society is just awful. Hope your wallets grow fat.

[millennium2k]

And there is nothing wrong about making money. But keeping your profits under the table under the disguise of community driven society is just awful. Hope your wallets grow fat.

I havent been a member of Pedro's for that long, so I may have missed it but I've been looking for it and so far I have not found the passage you refer to; the one where Pedro claims his base motivation for running the tracker is his wish to establish a community driven society. Maybe you can give me some pointers where I could find such a quote..

But for arguements sake, let's just assume Pedro is in it for the money, so what ??? Big deal.. If he makes some money off the tracker, good for him, if he makes a lot of money off it, better even, it doesn't harm me in any way as I personally still benefit of the trackes existence as well.. Lot of quatlity rips for the grabs and I don't even have to pay for it, doesn't mean I "Cant" donate but if I choose to do so it's my own choice..

So now you're making Pedro look like the big bad wolf only after the pennies in our wallet's but, like Pedro you are from Poland no ? Are the laws in poland different then in most western countries, meaning that it is legal to run a tracker sharing mostly copyrighted material ?? If it's not legal, isn't he the one most at risk. We all know the pirate bay story don't we ? Shouldn't Pedro be allowed for some financial compensation considdering possible legal repercussions he might face should things turn sour ?

And don't get me wrong, I'm trying real hard not to pick sides here as I really like and respect most of the "familiar" participants to this thread. I think the tracker has lost some great mods in Tut and Rollo, I for one will surely miss their contributions in the forums, on IRC and to the tracker in general. I was hoping it would be possible for both parties to come to the table and sort their differences out, but the way things have evolved now, that probably won't happen.. And apart from those two it seems more people have lost their accounts, and I will miss them all on the tracker.. Some of them I considder as friends and fortunately for me most of them are still active on another tracker so it's still possible for us to communicate.

Before you start speculating: yes I did creat my acount today, bu noone sent me here and no, I'm not blacksummer/VR. Most of you won't know me as I tend to keep things low profile but for the ones who still have access to the site, you can find me there using the same nick I use here.. This whole situation just saddens me, as I know it saddens a lot of the trackers members. Wish things were different and this whole issue wouldn't have grown so out of hand..

just my 2 cents,
Mill

[Skiz]

And there is nothing wrong about making money. But keeping your profits under the table under the disguise of community driven society is just awful. Hope your wallets grow fat.

I havent been a member of Pedro's for that long, so I may have missed it but I've been looking for it and so far I have not found the passage you refer to; the one where Pedro claims his base motivation for running the tracker is his wish to establish a community driven society. Maybe you can give me some pointers where I could find such a quote..

But for arguements sake, let's just assume Pedro is in it for the money, so what ??? Big deal.. If he makes some money off the tracker, good for him, if he makes a lot of money off it, better even, it doesn't harm me in any way as I personally still benefit of the trackes existence as well.. Lot of quatlity rips for the grabs and I don't even have to pay for it, doesn't mean I "Cant" donate but if I choose to do so it's my own choice..

So now you're making Pedro look like the big bad wolf only after the pennies in our wallet's but, like Pedro you are from Poland no ? Are the laws in poland different then in most western countries, meaning that it is legal to run a tracker sharing mostly copyrighted material ?? If it's not legal, isn't he the one most at risk. We all know the pirate bay story don't we ? Shouldn't Pedro be allowed for some financial compensation considdering possible legal repercussions he might face should things turn sour ?

And don't get me wrong, I'm trying real hard not to pick sides here as I really like and respect most of the "familiar" participants to this thread. I think the tracker has lost some great mods in Tut and Rollo, I for one will surely miss their contributions in the forums, on IRC and to the tracker in general. I was hoping it would be possible for both parties to come to the table and sort their differences out, but the way things have evolved now, that probably won't happen.. And apart from those two it seems more people have lost their accounts, and I will miss them all on the tracker.. Some of them I considder as friends and fortunately for me most of them are still active on another tracker so it's still possible for us to communicate.

Before you start speculating: yes I did creat my acount today, bu noone sent me here and no, I'm not blacksummer/VR. Most of you won't know me as I tend to keep things low profile but for the ones who still have access to the site, you can find me there using the same nick I use here.. This whole situation just saddens me, as I know it saddens a lot of the trackers members. Wish things were different and this whole issue wouldn't have grown so out of hand..

just my 2 cents,
Mill

I'd like to publically agree wholeheartedly with this post.

[FlacMonkey]

That Pedro is in it for the money, okay. I could maybe live with. I was probably at peace with that thought the day I joined. Maybe this wouldn't even bother me too much today. But what I can't stand is deception, the bold faced lies. There you have an admin that tries to sell you she works hard for the well-being of the community and cares and it's all a "community site". She'll tell you it's been a year she was bringing up the overseeding problem and has been trying to come up with a solution to it. A YEAR. Then next thing she does is boot the only moderator that was actively tackling the problem, no explanations given. During that time she gets a seedbox because it's getting hard to seed anything... After firing that valued mod, yeah it's RolloTomasi I'm talking about of course, she asks her lapdog VR to start a decoy of a poll about overseeding asking uploaders their opinion about it. When 65 % of voters answer they're willing to establish a rule limiting overseeding she requires 75 % of uploaders to vote. Something that probably wouldn't happen. The poll back-fires, the situation heats up and couple of good people get booted. Nothing's ever gonna happen about overseeding at Pedro's. It fuels donations. You don't want to sacrifice your milking cow for the sake of the community, especially for the very part that's forced to donate due to ratio trouble. Okay, but then don't make your admin preech about community and "being there for the little guy" while you get rid of those trying to make your "community" and site a better place. That's jut plain wrong. Simple truths.

[AkaiDoresu]

Wow, some people are more naive than I thought. FlacMonkey - good point.

[TP635]

That Pedro is in it for the money, okay. I could maybe live with. I was probably at peace with that thought the day I joined. Maybe this wouldn't even bother me too much today. But what I can't stand is deception, the bold faced lies. There you have an admin that tries to sell you she works hard for the well-being of the community and cares and it's all a "community site". She'll tell you it's been a year she was bringing up the overseeding problem and has been trying to come up with a solution to it. A YEAR. Then next thing she does is boot the only moderator that was actively tackling the problem, no explanations given. During that time she gets a seedbox because it's getting hard to seed anything... After firing that valued mod, yeah it's RolloTomasi I'm talking about of course, she asks her lapdog VR to start a decoy of a poll about overseeding asking uploaders their opinion about it. When 65 % of voters answer they're willing to establish a rule limiting overseeding she requires 75 % of uploaders to vote. Something that probably wouldn't happen. The poll back-fires, the situation heats up and couple of good people get booted. Nothing's ever gonna happen about overseeding at Pedro's. It fuels donations. You don't want to sacrifice your milking cow for the sake of the community, especially for the very part that's forced to donate due to ratio trouble. Okay, but then don't make your admin preech about community and "being there for the little guy" while you get rid of those trying to make your "community" and site a better place. That's jut plain wrong. Simple truths.

I'd like to publically agree wholeheartedly with this post.

[cottonseed]

It is good to see that there are some people left with values and respect for others. This is not about the money. It is about the means in which that money is obtained. I had almost given up on the P2P scene as it seemed it was no longer about sharing but rather what one can gain for themselves. Thanks to those who refrained from name calling and addressed the topic at hand. It shows me that there is hope and that, my friends, is a great thing

[cinephilia]

just a question to AkaiDoresu: are you still member of BTM ?