Ontologically speaking, how can GOD be proven

[bigboab]

bigboab, people can kill for many reasons (grief, madness, money, sports...) but that is all different matter.

We are talking here, or at least we're trying, about God, religion, faith itself.

I was talking about people killing in the name of their God. Whatever or whoever that God may be. If a God were to appear to me tomorrow I would be a believer. I am just not going to believe in 'Chinese Whispers' because that is all that is available to me at the moment. There have been many people who claimed to be the Son of God. Jesus was just one of many whom a lot of people have latched on to.

[sez]

@recursacro,i don't really know what side you are on in this as from what i understand,you are saying that you don't believe in faith i.e you don't have it.However,last I checked both of these theories can't go the whole ten yard if they were to be put through a thorough scrutiny and clearly at some point they both shall come down to faith.Now that's that.

If you are an atheist, why do you grimace when drowning a caught mouse? If you are an atheist,why do you capture a fly or spider and let it go outside?
More generally, if you believe that there is no connection between yourself and other creatures, whether that be an "eye in the sky" entity, or some form of collective unconsciousness, or any other "larger than yourself" phenomenon, why is there any harm whatever in killing a creature?
DOA answers:
- There is some selfish rationale to maintaining an eco-balance. If we all killed creatures willy-nilly, there'd be no creatures left.
Answer: nonsense. This is one mouse; one fly.
- You are a product of society/your physiological emotions. It is conditioned into you to shrink from needless death.
Answer: That is simply passing the buck, pretending you are a victim. You should be able to throw off that pressure and believe in - and practice - your own atheist philosophy.
So do all atheists kill creatures as it is convenient? If not, why not?

[MaxOverlord]

Before anyone wrote anything more here... Read that quoted statement again.

It is matter of believing, not knowing.

A real God, that has been proven, would instill fear in those about to sin, and would give real hope to those looking for it. Faith would not be needed. Then I would worship him.

@Sez for all of those questions:
I believe most of these because they are logical. I don't believe in some supreme being that created everything and was never created because it isn't logical.

Also, because I think that my mother (the lady that I think is my mother) conceived me has nothing to do with using a superior being as a crutch for the weak minded.

I don't go praying for someone else to make something happen for me. Especially when that thing would defeat all odds. (Winning the lottery, for instance)

With Faith, one becomes narrow-minded, and weak. Look at yourself. If someone sincerely told me that the woman I thought was my mother was not mine, I would take them into consideration. I obviously wouldn't believe them at first, but I would accept that it was a possibility. It's logical. I don't have some stubborn faith that locks me into a euphoric state of God-will-save-me.

Why not just wait until something has been proven to live your life by it? Why live your life on something that you're not completely sure is real? Sound like a group of people trying to control others...?

I am struck..as I always am...by the simple grammatical use of a capital G in your reference to God....if you don't believe in a God..at least have enough logical sense to know to use a lower-case G. And also...does your mother...errr,excuse me...does the woman you "think" is your mother know that you aren't positive and only "think" she is your "mother".....and also....intelligence is no guarantee against being dead wrong...logically that is.

[Recursacro]

@Sez:

I suppose you could consider me an atheist. I practice many Buddhist values and beliefs though. I am against killing because I think all animals are equal. I don't kill insects, and I don't like it when people say that they have pets. One can't own another. Because of this, I'm also vegetarian.

I have one question for you, Sez. How has God helped you?

@MaxOverlord:

God is a name. I capitalize it because it's a proper noun, not because I worship the being the name represents. As for the "not knowing who my mother is", that was sarcasm aimed at Sez because of his questions on belief. You'll understand if you read his post.

I haven't much else to say towards you, except for that I ask for you try to contribute to the thread, and not pick apart my so-called logically grammatical errors.

So, the question for all of you:

How has God helped any of you?

[Ronnie Coleman]

...How has God helped any of you?...

For some, this quiestion may sound naive... But, it is very interesting question. Let's wait for "answers".

[j2k4]

...How has God helped any of you?...

For some, this quiestion may sound naive... But, it is very interesting question. Let's wait for "answers".

Uh-uh - doesn't work that way with faith.

You don't just try faith, or sign up for it like unemployment benefits...and, let's face it - some just aren't cut out for it.

No shame in that.

Just don't hold our faith against us, and we won't have to, um, judge you.

[bigboab]

For some, this quiestion may sound naive... But, it is very interesting question. Let's wait for "answers".

Uh-uh - doesn't work that way with faith.

You don't just try faith, or sign up for it like unemployment benefits...and, let's face it - some just aren't cut out for it.

No shame in that.

Just don't hold our faith against us, and we won't have to, um, judge you.

I think you may have that the wrong way round Kev. Why can't religions leave children alone and let them decide for themselves when they get older? Or is it a case of plant it in the brain and maybe it wont go away?

Why do part of the wedding service say that you have to bring your children up in the faith? That is similar to forcing your kids to follow your own sporting heroes.

I don't think there is any way to resolve this question. Faith does not require proof of the existence. Most non believers demand proof.

p.s. could not sleep. restless legs.

[Recursacro]

For some, this quiestion may sound naive... But, it is very interesting question. Let's wait for "answers".

Uh-uh - doesn't work that way with faith.

You don't just try faith, or sign up for it like unemployment benefits...and, let's face it - some just aren't cut out for it.

No shame in that.

Just don't hold our faith against us, and we won't have to, um, judge you.

In other words, that maybe easier to answer:

How has having faith been beneficial to you?

[j2k4]

Uh-uh - doesn't work that way with faith.

You don't just try faith, or sign up for it like unemployment benefits...and, let's face it - some just aren't cut out for it.

No shame in that.

Just don't hold our faith against us, and we won't have to, um, judge you.

In other words, that maybe easier to answer:

How has having faith been beneficial to you?

That's pretty easy.

It begins with "God grant me the serenity..."

and ends with "...for they know not what they do...".

It has literally kept me from killing people, and trust me when I tell you that I mean what I say.

It is what gives me the patience to deal with some of the things that happen here and keep coming back.

I have never given rein to my constant urge to wring the life from something several times a week, or several times a day, some days.

It keeps my heart from exploding.

I don't know what else to say.

[MaxOverlord]

[QUOTE=Recursacro;3273729]@Sez:

I suppose you could consider me an atheist. I practice many Buddhist values and beliefs though. I am against killing because I think all animals are equal. I don't kill insects, and I don't like it when people say that they have pets. One can't own another. Because of this, I'm also vegetarian.

I have one question for you, Sez. How has God helped you?

@MaxOverlord:

God is a name. I capitalize it because it's a proper noun, not because I worship the being the name represents. As for the "not knowing who my mother is", that was sarcasm aimed at Sez because of his questions on belief. You'll understand if you read his post.

I haven't much else to say towards you, except for that I ask for you try to contribute to the thread, and not pick apart my so-called logically grammatical errors.

So, the question for all of you:

How has God helped any of you?[/QUOTE

The thing I find interesting is that your sentence structure alone tells me you believe in a higher power. Now some may call it God...others The Way...movie lovers might prefer The Force....I also find it interesting that there are a few Buddhist's or those who practice some of the teachings to be the ones attacking Christianity......but then again..mans primal urge for dominance..which is what you are doing by attacking Christianity..trying to obtain dominance...is a program you can't uninstall...no matter how many days under the Bodhi tree. But hey...I couldn't care less what your validation rituals are..whether they be Communion or tossing tobacco into the air in the presence of an eagle....anyway...I believe you sincere in your interest as to what God has done to help any of us...